Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Exactly. That's what everyone does. If they are born into a bad neighborhood, or buy their first house in a bad neighborhood, if their circumstances improve they move out of that neighborhood quickly. NO ONE stays in a bad neighborhood and tries to drag it upwards with them.
And thus, many bad neighborhoods tend to stay bad. It's much easier to leave a neighborhood than to try and drag the neighborhood up. Now, gentrification does happen. While it can drive alot of the crime out, it will drive any low income people out, law abiding or not.
It's not impossible to clean up a neighborhood. It's quite a fight though. And very often, it's a fight that's best taken on by the relatively young and childless. People who are trying to raise families are going to have a much harder time fighting. For starters, the biggest concern is making sure their kids don't end up being recruited for the gangs. It's easier for the childless to stick around and fight because they have less to lose. For parents, even with both parents in the home, it's harder to fight simply because the gangs are there in the first place. For the parents who can do better, they leave. They have too much to lose if they stay and fight. They have everything to gain by leaving.
YOU mentioned "about 3 people are beaten to death in the USA every day."
Since I had no idea where your statistics came from, I guessed that may be you took it from social media, which describes such cases.
But now the only source of it I see is "Black lives matter" that mentions some "study," "relied on novel unofficial data.
I apologize, I should have said where I got that from so folks wouldn't have to waste time searching social media for some facts.
In the USA we have an agency that does many things dealing with crime. It's called the Federal Bureau of Investigation, but is usually just called the FBI.
FBI.gov is a good place to start.
Status:
"This too shall pass. But possibly, like a kidney stone."
(set 6 days ago)
35,935 posts, read 18,238,754 times
Reputation: 51009
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner
And thus, many bad neighborhoods tend to stay bad. It's much easier to leave a neighborhood than to try and drag the neighborhood up. Now, gentrification does happen. While it can drive alot of the crime out, it will drive any low income people out, law abiding or not.
It's not impossible to clean up a neighborhood. It's quite a fight though. And very often, it's a fight that's best taken on by the relatively young and childless. People who are trying to raise families are going to have a much harder time fighting. For starters, the biggest concern is making sure their kids don't end up being recruited for the gangs. It's easier for the childless to stick around and fight because they have less to lose. For parents, even with both parents in the home, it's harder to fight simply because the gangs are there in the first place. For the parents who can do better, they leave. They have too much to lose if they stay and fight. They have everything to gain by leaving.
I've seen this done pretty effectively by old people. There was this one old Black woman who lived in East Austin, and her motto was, "this is my neighborhood, these are my kids". And when cars full of young men would cruise the streets looking for drugs, she'd come up off her porch and shoo them away. And they'd leave, too. Eventually they knew not to park on her street for drug deals.
And that's what's needed. Churches, and older people.
Who knows what was going on. The kid who was a bully to me, who vandalized my house, his father enabled that behavior.
Which was very unfortunate. However, what you wrote below implies one specific family. And not something experienced throughout the middle-class White community where you grew up in. Which of course doesn’t change what happened.
I'd seen nasty graffiti written on the garage door of an Asian family which moved onto my block while growing up (lower/middle class White.) Yet, I don't recall it being on-going.
I recall being accused by a teacher in elementary school of slandering a Vietnamese kid (who didn't speak English) and getting in trouble but it wasn’t me and later the teacher had to apologized.
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner
When I was in middle school, someone busted our mailbox in the middle of the night. And this wasn't the first time someone hit our house. Someone through an egg at our house a few months prior. And someone stuff a "For Sale" sign in our yard. My father went to confront the parents of the kid who was involved in busting our mailbox. My father got yelled at by the other father and was basically told "get out of my face". I figured out where that kid got his penchant for being a bully, especially towards me. This wasn't in the inner city. This was a middle class, predominantly White neighborhood (and the kids involved were White). The parents were as bad as the kids.
The kid that I mentioned, his siblings were no better. His younger brother was known for being crass and vulgar, TOWARDS ADULTS. His older brother basically behaved like a violent delinquent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner
The sad thing is this. It's not impossible to clean things up. However, it's an uphill battle, and a major fight. You have to be committed to staying. And the thing is, there are many reasons why Blacks who aren't part of the underclass will leave. Many people have no reason to stick around. If the schools are bad, if crime is extremely bad, and you want a nice quiet life NOW, the easiest thing to do is to leave. If you somehow find a way to get a good education, and a job that pays very well, it's much easier to just leave.
Agree but it must start from within. The Black community has to lead the way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC
I've seen this done pretty effectively by old people. There was this one old Black woman who lived in East Austin, and her motto was, "this is my neighborhood, these are my kids". And when cars full of young men would cruise the streets looking for drugs, she'd come up off her porch and shoo them away. And they'd leave, too. Eventually they knew not to park on her street for drug deals.
And that's what's needed. Churches, and older people.
Again it all has to start from within the community. Nothing else will work and by now this should be clear.
But you were talking about the prevention, haven't you?
"As in... Putting tracking devices on them isn't hard. What is hard is PREVENTION. PREVENTION is what we need.'
See, prevention exists in US as it is, however when it's applied "to everyone the same," Black Americans end up with much higher crime rates.
Therefore Whites don't need the elevated level of "prevention" in the same manner as Blacks.
And that's where things start going awry in US ( just an example.)
For you personally this shouldn't be a problem, but how typical are you for the ghetto crowd?
Not much I suppose?
Then no, Soviet Union wouldn't be a good match for you.
But for ghetto crowd Soviet system would be more beneficial for a number of reasons.
A.Comprehensive education in schools, with elevated discipline, where every child is screened for the natural abilities in the most objective manner - boys or girls.
B.The ones that can't keep up with education, are channeled into the technical schools where they start learning trade from the age of 14 or so. ( After that they are guaranteed jobs as anyone else.)
C.Obviously no drugs, even for a reason that borders were closed there, so drugs couldn't be imported lol.
Alcohol? Yes, but forcible "detoxification" is a must, if someone is found on the streets intoxicated.
D. Everyone HAS to work, and no one is homeless.
E.Relations between people are fairly close (more of a "communal setting," where "it takes a village to raise a child,") but at the same time there is no such thing as "welfare queens," since all women MUST work in the same manner as men.
F. At the age of 18 all guys that don't plan to go for higher education are compulsory drafted into the army for two years, where again they are disciplined, get the physical exercise daily and learn how to operate machinery ( depending what part of the military forces they are in.)
G. Extended families are part of a picture, particularly in the country side.
So as you can see, there are reasons why I think this is closer to what Black community needs to flourish VS the wants and needs of White America, which are different.
Yes, I was talking about prevention. Putting tracking devices on people tends to be more punishment than prevention. It's basically probation via technology. And some people who have tracking devices on them aren't ashamed.
As for crime rates by race, those are the crime rates BECAUSE there is a failure to prevent them. It's not despite prevention. Those are the crime rates despite PUNISHMENT. It is punishment that doesn't seem to do a great job instilling fear.
The laws are the same for everyone. And so are the punishments. ALL criminals need to be punished. And prevention needs to exist to make sure no one gets involved in crime. ALL criminals need to be dealt with swiftly regardless of race.
Your argument is that Blacks need special rules. I think that's a load of garbage. With everyone in America lives under the same laws regardless of race, or we can break up into separate countries. However, as long as we're all Americans, we're all under the same laws and rules, whether you think it's a good idea or not.
The underclass ghetto crowd isn't that much different from criminals classes in other races. What makes American Blacks different is HISTORY. How we got here. We are who we are, not because we're Black, but because of how we got to this point. I notice we don't have this same issue with most Caribbean and African immigrants who come here.
The Soviet system wouldn't do much for the "ghetto" crowd. Why? Because there was something similar tried. It's called Jim Crow. It's called slavery. During slavery, there were Black people who led slave rebellions. There were slaves that ran away from slavery. As for Jim Crow, Black Americans eventually started rebelling against that too. One of the hallmarks of the Soviet system is terror. Black Americans have a long history of being subjected to terror. You can only subject people to terror for a certain amount of time before they fight back. It's a matter of time before some people stop caring if they live or die and are willing to rebel.
We still have an underclass left, that is the product of centuries of adverse socialization. Is that an excuse for committing crimes? No it isn't. Every criminal needs to be locked up. At the same time, the Soviet system isn't going to work.
As for some of the stuff you mentioned, here are a few things I see.
A) Screening kids for natural talents and using elevated discipline, this isn't particular to the Soviets. Germany, Japan, Switzerland, those countries use such a system.
B) See also A.
C) Too late. You can make meth in the USA, and it's cheaper than making cocaine. Closing the borders won't do a thing. As for alcohol, other countries do detox as well.
D) In order to make sure everyone works, you have to make sure those jobs are worth spending the money on.
E) Many "welfare queens" have jobs. Many women are on welfare because their jobs don't pay enough. As for communal living, you would literally have to crush everyone's freedom for that and force them to live in cheek-to-jowl arrangements. And this being America, many people are going to rebel.
F) If America were to institute the draft again, we would see a repeat of the 1960s. Rioting and protests.
G) No family arrangement has proven to be as successful as the nuclear two-parent home, with both parents being married. The extended family isn't the same as a two-parent home.
What Black Americans needed to flourish was to be socialized and treated the same as White Americans in the first place. Black Americans didn't even choose to come here. Everything about the Black American existence, for about half of America's history, was defined by duress. Black Americans not having many choices in the first place. Black Americans struggled to thrive for a long time because they were never really given the chance to. The last 55+ years have been the best Black Americans have ever had it.
Status:
"This too shall pass. But possibly, like a kidney stone."
(set 6 days ago)
35,935 posts, read 18,238,754 times
Reputation: 51009
Quote:
Originally Posted by john3232
Which was very unfortunate. However, what you wrote below implies one specific family. And not something experienced throughout the middle-class White community where you grew up in. Which of course this doesn’t change what happened. I'd seen nasty comments written on the garage door of an Asian family that move while growing
Agree but it must start from within. The Black community has to lead the way.
Again it all has to start from within the community. Nothing else will work and by now this should be clear.
Bill Cosby was certainly a very strong voice for young men, advocating acting respectably until we all learned that . . . oh no . . . well, that was the end of Mr Cosby. But for a time, he was a very strong voice.
Putting tracking devices on people tends to be more punishment than prevention. It's basically probation via technology. And some people who have tracking devices on them aren't ashamed.
I don't care if they see wearing a tracking device as a badge of honor as long as it is not removed and their whereabouts constantly monitored.
Status:
"This too shall pass. But possibly, like a kidney stone."
(set 6 days ago)
35,935 posts, read 18,238,754 times
Reputation: 51009
Quote:
Originally Posted by john3232
I don't care if they see wearing a tracking device as a badge of honor as long as it is not removed and their whereabouts constantly monitored.
May I recommend Tattoos On the Heart by Gregory Boyd. A true story of a priest working in the worst part of LA, and though his acceptance and encouragement of young gang members, has made a tremendous difference. Sometimes, you just have to have one person caring for another person who doesn't have anyone at all caring for him.
Bill Cosby was certainly a very strong voice for young men, advocating acting respectably until we all learned that . . . oh no . . . well, that was the end of Mr Cosby.
He wasn't wrong yet certainly not the father figure he portrayed on TV. And by some accounts MLK wasn't much better. If the below is true… only Malcom X was the real deal.
Quote:
Martin Luther King Jr. allegedly had sexual relations with at least 40 women, from prostitutes to people within his inner circle, according to explosive new research published Thursday by David J. Garrow, one of the civil rights leader’s foremost biographers.
The most shocking allegation, culled from decades-old FBI files, details a 1964 incident in which King reportedly “looked on, laughed and offered advice” to a fellow preacher who was raping a woman in a hotel room.
May I recommend Tattoos On the Heart by Gregory Boyd. A true story of a priest working in the worst part of LA, and though his acceptance and encouragement of young gang members, has made a tremendous difference. Sometimes, you just have to have one person caring for another person who doesn't have anyone at all caring for him.
He wasn't wrong yet certainly wasn't the father figure he portrayed on TV. And by some accounts MLK wasn't much better. If the below is true… only Malcom X was the real deal (and he was killed by those within the Muslim community.)
Dr. King is a big reason why I have the freedoms that I enjoy today.
Malcolm X has a darker past. He was a street criminal involved in pimping, stealing, etc.
Quote:
Fine but the tracking device stays on. And if the individual is committed to change they won't have a problem with it.
If it gets to where we have to put tracking devices on people, then we might as well leave them in prison.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
