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My observation is that many who believe in the "Aryan" concept of the Nazis want to greatly limit who is considered white. In general they want to limit it to Germanic, Celtic and Nordic peoples. By that definition I would be off in a rail car.
That's only one definition of white.
As I've mentioned, white in America is more than just skin color or (a group of) ethnicities or race (we just call it race for historical reasons and for the sake of convenience). You can read my previous posts to see what I'm talking about.
What do you mean by British some mix? Because there are lots of Jamaicans and Pakistanis there?
And what does Italian mixed with some black mean? There are more black people in France and Germany then there are in Italy.
Some Brits have some hint of mixture. You can tell by the darker hair and smaller stature than say, Germans or Norwegians. Don't forget the Roman Empire did a number of much of Europe.
Given Italy's proximity to Africa and their jet black to kinky hair, I think it's obvious.
And "white" in America is more than skin color. There were times when Jews, Irish, etc. were not considered "white". Even today there are (pale skinned) Russians who don't consider themselves "white". Post #120
Jews are Middle Eastern. They speak a middle eastern language and do not look like European Whites. They're definitely ethnic. They might have mixed their genes and bought names, etc., but you can still tell. Nothing wrong at all with being who they are but just calling it like I see it.
My observation is that many who believe in the "Aryan" concept of the Nazis want to greatly limit who is considered white. In general they want to limit it to Germanic, Celtic and Nordic peoples. By that definition I would be off in a rail car.
Being white is very subjective. Over a 100 years ago even those of South East European and Italian origin were not considered white by many anglo saxons.
Many may have forgotten but in 1921 congress passed the Emergecy Quota Act followed by the immigration act of 1924 to prevent the immigration of many jews, italians, and greeks.
Over time the view has changed, but it just goes to show you how fickle people can be when it comes to their definition of so called racial classifcations.
Some Brits have some hint of mixture. You can tell by the darker hair and smaller stature than say, Germans or Norwegians. Don't forget the Roman Empire did a number of much of Europe.
Given Italy's proximity to Africa and their jet black to kinky hair, I think it's obvious.
I think maybe Sicily being closer to North Africa and the Arab culture perhaps, but not the rest of Italy. My girlfriend is 100% Italian from Rome and is blonde hair and blue-eyed. I visited Italy last year with her for three weeks and traveled all over the place. There were as many blondes there as there were in Austria and more than in France.
The Italian people are probably the most beautiful in Europe. Definitely what you see on the Sopranos is not representative of most of Italians. Made my pasty Irish arse realize how lucky I am to have such a beautiful girlfriend. I was so impressed with the Italian culture, lifestyle, healthy/fresh cuisine, fashion and friendliness -- the whole place just blew me away and I can't wait to go back.
I think the stereotypes people make about Italians are probably the Sicilian lower class who emigrated to America. There were plenty of pretty ones who stayed behind!!!
Definitely what you see on the Sopranos is not representative of most of Italians.
I think the stereotypes people make about Italians are probably the Sicilian lower class who emigrated to America. There were plenty of pretty ones who stayed behind!!!
I believe this was addressed on the show several times. Tony Soprano's wife, Carmela, was from a northern Italian family and her parents often spoke disparagingly of all the southern Italians.
There was also a scene where one character, from Naples, rails against Christopher Columbus and questions why Italian-Americans make such a big deal out of him since he was from Genoa (northern Italy) where they all look down on southern Italians.
From the tone of your post, it seems you have adopted the same negative stereotyping of the northern Italians. Good for you!
I completey agree with this this statement. The reasons why spanierds are not so much seen as "white" or authentically white, is because of the obvious mixed ancestry. View both people from Northern Europe and those of Southern Europe. Nothern Europeans like my ancestors usually have much lighter skin, lighter eyes (blue/green/grey/hazel), and much lighter, more straight hair. But, southern Europeans like Spanierds and Italians usually have natural olive/tanned skin, Dark borwn, blackish hair and eyes, and also their hair is usually more curlier and/or wavier than Northern whites.
Those traits alone show obvious ancestral mixture. The only people in my family that those mediterranean features are my bi-racial nieces who are of African-American and Caucasain, and not to mention that Spain and Italy are so close to Africa and the middle east in terms of geography. And even when you do notice a Spanierd with Blue eyes and Blond hair, like the guy said earlier there's something else about it that still shows there mixed ancestry. It seems to me like a lot of the Spanierds are trying to to prove so much that they are white, which only makes you seem even more non-white. It's like a case of self hatred. I think whites from Northern Europe can especially tell when you are a "white" from southern europe.
It seems that you assume that North Europeans are the orginal caucasians but you would be wrong. Northern Europeans are but the extreme variety that appeared on the scene in more recent times. The original Caucasian phenotype comes out of Western Asia from which the name Caucasia derives. The Greeks and Romans who's glory Nothern Erupeans like to claim were mostly swarthy Mediterranean people. So think again..
And to answer the original question. In the US many people are condtioned to associate Spanish speaking people with the many dark skinned Mexican mestizos and other Latian Americans that are common in our country. If there were only Spaniards in the US and no other Latinos, they would be seen as Whites similar to Italians and Greeks etc..which in fact they really are.
I know this post is old, but I just wanted to mention. Cavalli-Sforza and others have done a lot of interesting work in actually tracing genes from Africa to Asia and then from Africa and Asia simultaneously into Europe. Their work is scholarly and scientific and does not make any ethnocentric claims--it is purely enlightening cheers!
I admit that surprised me. Although it makes sense in a way I think of "Hispanic" as Latin American. People from Spain are often basically just "white people", I mean if the term "white people" has any meaning. Although they don't separate Spanish immigrants by region. I would guess that Basque or Catalan immigrants don't identify as "Hispanic" that often, but I admit that's bit of conjecture. It seems like sensible conjecture in the case of the Basques though because I'm pretty sure Basque-Americans don't identify as Hispanic.
I admit that surprised me. Although it makes sense in a way I think of "Hispanic" as Latin American. People from Spain are often basically just "white people", I mean if the term "white people" has any meaning. Although they don't separate Spanish immigrants by region. I would guess that Basque or Catalan immigrants don't identify as "Hispanic" that often, but I admit that's bit of conjecture. It seems like sensible conjecture in the case of the Basques though because I'm pretty sure Basque-Americans don't identify as Hispanic.
European Spanish people don't qualify as "Hispanic" for minority business enterprise programs, for what it's worth.
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cheers!
