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""If I wanted to move permanently to China..or Russia....or Germany...should I 'adapt' to the cultures of those places, or could I just continue to "act, think, and feel" American, forever? If not, WHY not? If I did NOT adapt, should I expect to be 'welcomed' by the local populace, just for being 'myself'?""
Around the world, visiting or resident Americans (and Europeans in general) are pretty much left to behave as they please. From American films and TV, people all over the world have a fair idea of what Amerians do, and they just grin and bear it. The rest of the world is a great deal more tolerant of "different" behavior than Americans are, because they have not been so isolated from strangers wandering through.
It might surprise you that Arab countries are the most tolerant of all. Foreigners can live how they please among Arabs, who simply regard non-Muslims as being doomed right from the start, and Allah will take care of judging them. Muslims think of themselves as being sufficiently disciplined, that the presence of American behavior will not influence them to change their own ways. In general, Arabs and Muslims are very generous welcoming and hospitable and tolerant of strangers and outsiders (almost to a fault), and never expect people from other cultures to adopt their ways of doing things, but they are wonderfully flattered if strangers do.
Similarly, Latin Americans are very forgiving of American peculiarities, and will even occasionally make an effort to accommodate visiting Americans, such as making a special effort to show up on time for an appointment. Nobody there expects Americans to become Latinized. Americans are not hated as much as you think, mainly because people in the rest of the world have a more limited capacity for hate and intolerance and indignation.
I'm not familiar with the Arab world, but your point sounds reasonable. I've traveled extensively in Latin America, and agree with your post.
My point was more-or-less theoretical. IF there was a true parallel with our present-day situation re: illegal immigrants, and if the OPPOSITE were true (if large numbers of poorly-educated Americans 'showed up' in these lands, with the aim in mind of 'plugging in' to their systems, competing with the locals for jobs, and taking advantage of all that THOSE societies offered), then I don't believe we Americans could expect a 'warm welcome', unless we went to some effort to 'fit in'.
As I said, this is all theoretical. As a matter of fact, the Americans who DO this sort of travel, or even move permanantly to these places, generally are NOT poor, nor unskilled, nor do they 'ask much' of the system. And MOST of these Americans (and I've known many myself) DO go to some effort to take an interest in their 'hosts', many learning the local culture, etc. Therefore my comparison is, as I say, only theoretical, because no true comparisons can be made.
Yes, it was called hundreds of years of unpaid labor aka slavery.
You seriously don't think that if slavery hadn't existed they couldn't find just as many non-blacks of all sorts of backgrounds to work the fields for next to nothing like they do today? Indentured servitude and sharecroppers ring a bell?
I know everybody likes to claim America was built on "their backs" - from blacks, to the Irish, to Chinese and Mexicans - but it's a bit more complicated than that, no?
Jtur, I cant really buy the Arab countries being most tolerant statement!
Depends, I suppose, upon your definitions. Their hospitality to strangers is legendary. However, so is their 'code of honor' and sense of 'justice'. Entirely different in most ways from "our" culture, here in the USA. (We aren't too big on hospitality...on the other hand our 'sense of honor' is pretty fluid, too..
It's pretty hard to 'insult' an American....at least from what I've seen.)
I don't think we'd have a better world once whites are gone and they deserve the right to be fruitful and duly represented both in Europe and abroad.
Having said that, it's not our [non-white people's] fault you're all fading away. Japan doesn't have immigration and they're still in population free-fall. If you want more white people, then go make some more white people. I'd love to have a blonde to make some quadroons with.
Lol, don't worry about white people. They'll always be around.
Heck, if we get rid of "made up" minority groups, you'd actually be surprised at their REAL representation numbers in America, as opposed to my earlier beef with "Hispanics" being counted "non white" because they have a last name that sounds Spanish. There would actually be a big growth in "Indian" numbers as well as some black population.
It's something both white doom and gloomers, and minorities who revel in whites becoming less of a majority as the "minority" grows, should learn sooner than later.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shizzles
America belongs to everyone, from the blondest blonde to the darkest African (and everyone inbetween, of course). Anyone who thinks differently should drop dead.
America has the right, however, to demand some semblance of national cohesion via language and shared civic holidays, traditions, and responsibilities.
I am first generation on my father's side, and cringe at what a couple decades of "multiculti fascination" has done to balkanize this country.
That's exactly what people HAVE been doing, for about 200 years, here in the 'artificial' nation known as the USA. The 'common ground' they found enabled them to come together enough to build a great industrial economy, PLUS win two very BRUISING world wars, PLUS manage to be fairly well liked and respected over most of the world, until recently.
What people? Certainly not people of color. This "great industrial economy" was built on the backs of slaves. Did Africans find "common ground" when they were enslaved and brought to the U.S.? Did the Native Americans find common ground when they were killed and forced onto reservations? Or was it when their religion was beaten out of them in Catholic boarding schools? Doesn't sound like voluntary coming together to me.
Just exactly what type of 'learning from each other' do you suggest we now adopt? What 'common ground' is it that we need to find, and with whom? If people in ANY country don't want to adopt the 'dominant culture', what culture do you suggest they adopt?...and most importantly, what happens when there are irreconcilable differences between "those" cultures, and the "dominant" one? What then?
Here is an example: In the U.S., individuality is encouraged. The nuclear family is seen as the most important, the extended family, not so much. People live far from relatives, put their parents in nursing homes, etc. However, other cultures are much more family oriented. Family members help each other out, and putting your parents in a nursing home is seen as an abomination. Children are kept in line not just by their parents, but by the whole neighborhood. These practices have kept many people's heads above water in times of distress. It works for them. But Americans say things like "Why are you always with your family? Why don't you put your mother in a nursing home?"
Personally, I don't think family-oriented cultures should give up their values for the work-work-work- don't ever see your family-die of a heart attack at 50 mentality of America. I think Americans could really learn something from people who put family above work. When you are sick in the hospital, depressed, etc, your job won't be there helping you. If you die, they'll just send a funeral wreath and call it a day.
If I wanted to move permanently to China..or Russia....or Germany...should I 'adapt' to the cultures of those places, or could I just continue to "act, think, and feel" American, forever? If not, WHY not? If I did NOT adapt, should I expect to be 'welcomed' by the local populace, just for being 'myself'?
Of course you have to adapt in some ways-learning the language, rules of the road, etc. But I think you can find a balance between your existing values and those of your new country. You may not be "completely" American anymore, but you don't have to be "completely" Chinese, Russian, etc. either. You may even influence the people around you in a positive way.
You seriously don't think that if slavery hadn't existed they couldn't find just as many non-blacks of all sorts of backgrounds to work the fields for next to nothing like they do today? Indentured servitude and sharecroppers ring a bell?
I know everybody likes to claim America was built on "their backs" - from blacks, to the Irish, to Chinese and Mexicans - but it's a bit more complicated than that, no?
I don't enjoy diversity for the sake of diversity, I just don't judge people by their race. I have Hispanic friends that share the same values/ideals as I do. Should I not be friends with them because their skin isn't as white as mine? I don't think so.
This is the heart of the whole issue, right here. "Diversity" to a lot of people seems to mean forcing a certain pigmentation or ethnic background on people. There was a university that got in trouble a few years back because it put out a football program with a picture of a cheering crowd on the cover, and someone who knew the photo called out the school for Photoshopping a black guy into the all-white crowd. That's the same mindset that puts a token black guy into every beer commercial where guys are hanging out and watching the game. It's insulting to the minority group, and it screams "quota."
I couldn't care less if my neighbors were green-skinned atheist bisexual polygamists. As long as they're friendly folks, their ethnic background and personal choices don't mean a thing. I suspect lots of Americans feel that way, and I also think that would come as a shock to the social engineers who feel compelled to constantly draw attention to outer superficilaities like pigmentation and insist on shoving their shallow idea of "diversity" down all our throats.
America belongs to everyone, from the blondest blonde to the darkest African (and everyone inbetween, of course). Anyone who thinks differently should drop dead.
Well, I'll agree with you somewhat. I don't think America belongs to EVERYONE; I believe it belongs to Americans, who then normally extend hospitality to 'everyone', if not outright ownership.
I don't think America belongs to the 'darkest African', though I'm perfectly OK with the 'darkest American citizen of African ancestry'.
I agree mostly with what you say. Obviously, though, you do have reservations. You don't seem to be very fond of 'anyone who thinks differently'. You don't come right out and SAY that 'these people have no business in America', but you DO say they 'should drop dead'. Presumably, this would end any chance for them to be part of American society.
Perhaps your statement should be re-written to read thusly; "America belongs to EVERY CITIZEN, except for those who disagree with this statement" Those people, as you say, should 'drop dead'.
Jtur, I cant really buy the Arab countries being most tolerant statement!
All you ever hear are the horror stories, and like everywhre, there are a few.
More typical is the incident in Yemen, when a few Americans were kidnapped in a village in the desert. The villagers wanted the government to improve their water system and were not getting anywhere, so they kidnapped some tourists to press their demands. The tourists were treated kindly, and fed well, and even stayed in touch with their kidnappers years after their release.
I won't bore you with the deatails, but I could tell you about many personal incidents in which the hospitality in Arab countries, under difficult circumstances, was something unimaginable in America.
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