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what are you TALKING about????? How are gay people telling the people in the church what to do with their lives??
Because they're alive. The simple fact that gay people exist and they 'choose' to live that way (which is bs) is the sole reason to create groups like Exodus and which cause people to try and 'pray away the gay'. Thank goodness being a homosexual isn't considered a mental illness anymore and that one day, they WILL be allowed to marry. It's only a matter of time. Maybe being religious should be considered a mental illness... I mean you're talking telepathically to someone you've never met and you hallucinate when you 'see visions' of him....hmmm...
Very lengthy and almost hateful in some places with what you say against the so called religious right! You may not like it but we the people have a right to our beliefs and the left has been very militant and hateful is recent years, so the right is taking a stand much to your dislike. We the Amercian people unfortunately are becoming more and more polarized and that is a shame! Guess who started it? The left that is who. Things were not perfect but life was fairly good until the left went so far left they are falling off the cliff. They are radical and not the norm. The right is just trying to stand it ground to protect the holy marriage institution between one man and one women so what is so wrong with that?
She, like I, hate the behavior embraced, not the people or the inherent faith. That is, unless the church is saying this behavior is what they're all about. They're defined by actions, not just words and attitudes.
We The People are not just you. It's all of us, including Christians against the abuse of Christ. You can believe anything you like, worship a pied piper Satan dressed up like Jesus, but it will be a cold day in hell before you force me to participate in your sickness. Your crimes evidenced in your behavior and attitudes towards gods children far exceed the 'sin' of being gay.
Radicals established this country so that you and I and everyone may worship whatever belief. Spit at the constitution to your own peril. It's not an entitlement to abuse or rob anyone of their rights. Select Americans calling themselves Christians, the Taliban, & Palestine/Israel are the only ones who seem to be confused about it because the brainwashing is that deep.
Brainwashing is not acceptable to true Christendom. You are encouraged to question the bible so that YOUR actions in life would be more ethical and mindful.
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Originally Posted by Happy27
I do not agree with all of the beliefs of the Mormon church but do repeat the people and know they stand strong for family relations. I think what we are seeing today is a lack of respect for decency and the marriage institution, it must remain undefined.
I respect Mormon right to practice faith as they see fit within their own lives. Just because they espouse strong family principles does not make them innocent of all other charges leveled in this discussion. Whereas they can be thought noble in their leading by example with their collective personal lives, they are villains when they disrespect the boundaries of their own lives and manipulate governments (home and abroad) to suit themselves.
Undefined why? How about churches call their institution holy matrimony and be satisfied with what goes on in their flock? Legislate in house all you want, I & everyone else could care less. Gays aren't welcome in your church--- they'll go elsewhere. The church is not the author nor has patent rights to the english language. Sit down.
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Originally Posted by Happy27
I guess that means you are an atheist am I correct?
Again, self appointed god? Sounds like a guy selling Kool aid in Guyana to me. Catch a comet plan?
What if, in gods time, god will reveal what christians see when the moment is correct? If, in gods time, that moment never occurs, I accept the free will god afforded us all. Your actions betray your own faithlessness. Atheists are free to believe what they want and do not encroach upon anyone. Fact is, you have just used that as a basis to encroach upon their right to exist, as you do with all people who fail to live up to your personal standards. Even GOD would not self entitle as such. You disgrace the faith infinitely. blasphemy: Definition, Synonyms from Answers.com Blasphemy-
1. a.)A contemptuous or profane act, utterance, or writing concerning God or a sacred entity.
b.) The act of claiming for oneself the attributes and rights of God.
2. An irreverent or impious act, attitude, or utterance in regard to something considered inviolable or sacrosanct..
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Originally Posted by Happy27
Comparing the church or people who want to preserve the marriage between a man and a woman as being like Nazi's being persecuted by Jews is insane and way over the top. Why don't you come on out and tell us the truth about how you feel.
I originate in catholicism. The Pope has had to make public apology for what part the Vatican played in enabling genocide in the name of our god. I pray that apology will never be necessary again, and that catholics everywhere would take heed the words of Pope John Paul to prevent history from repeating itself with any group, whether you agree with them or not.
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Originally Posted by 18Montclair
And there's definitely no guilt here whatsoever.
And therein lies the proof of hubris. You're calling yourself christian and believe you're without sin? You've made yourself in your mind beyond reproach and infallible? It's not in the realm of possibility that you could be wrong? This is the point where even faithful hetero christians shun you and consider you beyond all reason.
95% of the bible (all versions) is a message of love written in parable format as a means to reach the soul and encourage thoughtful self examination. 100% of jesus teachings (leading by example) is about love. Jesus did not abuse or harm anyone. The one act of violence committed was overturning the money table in his fathers house. By all other actions he encouraged another path, offered an option, respectful of free will consistent with Gods respect of free will.
Pushing the Obama vote? You have me at a disadvantage. I'm NOT an Obama supporter. Far from it. I was merely stating that the Church has no business in affairs of State or vice versa. I'm sure that many churches of various faiths back particular candidates in elections for various reasons but that is a far cry from actually lobbying in the halls of Congress. To set the record straight I'm a hardcore right wing kinda guy. A true conservative as it were. But that should not be construed to think that I condone the legislation of morality or churches being involved activley in our legislative proccess. Could you clarify what it is , exactly, you wish me to answer on?
I do not think the Mormon church behaved this way out of principle. THey are signalling the Republican fundies with this move, hoping the fundies will whole-heartedly back Mitt in the next election, and if he gets in the Mormons will be more entrenched than ever in US politics.
I do not think the Mormon church behaved this way out of principle. THey are signalling the Republican fundies with this move, hoping the fundies will whole-heartedly back Mitt in the next election, and if he gets in the Mormons will be more entrenched than ever in US politics.
I can only hope one day we will elect an openly atheist or agnostic or simply theistic POTUS.... then maybe we will be governed by logic instead of fairytales.
Evolution is off topic but I will reply. Evolution is a false science I have already read many books that refute it scientifically. Believe as you wish.
These are the morally superior geniuses we're supposed to reason with???? Obviously reason is an alien concept to these people.
These are the morally superior geniuses we're supposed to reason with???? Obviously reason is an alien concept to these people.
Yep Usually when I try to 'debate' with people who think evolution is a myth, all the research they've done is with 'Christian Scientific Monthly' which is an oxymoron to begin with...
They may overturn it, but it is still an idealogical win either way, and if they overturn it, then it would make them look like enemies of democracy. It is a big bonus for me just knowing that the people of the great "progressive" state of California voted for Prop 8.
You are wrong. We are ALL to be treated the same under the law. You cannot vote away a person's rights.
We cannot deny the right to marry to an entire class of people because God created them with different genes.
Years back the bible was used to deny women their rights under the law.
More recently the bible was used to perpetuate slavery. It is so sad that many blacks are using the strategies that were used against them to suppress another group.
Now the same book is being used to deny gays their equal rights.
There is no way that this will continue. Gays WILL marry.
This move by the Mormons is just to soften the feelings of the Republican religious right so that next election time their guy might do better. Mormons who make these decisions tend to be game players and are not strangers to lying when it helps their cause. They know their people will follow like good little sheep.
What happened to homosexuals keeping the government out of the bedroom? So now why do they insist that same government must get back into the bedroom and approve of their acts? Just have your civil unions and be done with it. Marriage isn't all that special as you can tell by the very high divorce rate.
Marriages must be recognized by every state. Civil unions do not have to be recognized by every state.
There are legal rights that civil unions do not grant that 'marriage' does.
Civil unions are not the equivalent of marriage.
I agree. Gays should have every right, legally, that straights do. Both should apply to the state for a civil union or state marriage and then to the church of their choice if they choose to, for a religious marriage ceremony.
Last edited by goldengrain; 11-17-2008 at 02:47 PM..
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. I'm NOT an Obama supporter. Far from it. I was merely stating that the Church has no business in affairs of State or vice versa. I'm sure that many churches of various faiths back particular candidates in elections for various reasons but that is a far cry from actually lobbying in the halls of Congress. To set the record straight I'm a hardcore right wing kinda guy. A true conservative as it were. But that should not be construed to think that I condone the legislation of morality or churches being involved activley in our legislative proccess. Could you clarify what it is , exactly, you wish me to answer on?
Usually when I try to 'debate' with people who think evolution is a myth, all the research they've done is with 'Christian Scientific Monthly' which is an oxymoron to begin with...