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Old 12-18-2008, 07:33 PM
 
Location: Chicago, IL
8,998 posts, read 14,789,526 times
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Time For Christians To Wage War on "The War Against Christmas" Whine - Progressive Revival

Quote:
I think it's time for Christians to reclaim Christmas by declaring war on the whole "War on Christmas" whine, and on the planted axiom that Jesus Christ needs to be proclaimed on department store facades and municipal squares. More generally, Christians should be offended by the idea that commercial or government neutrality towards religious expression represents some sort of persecution--a grievous insult to the sacrifices of true Christian martyrs, past, present and future.
Quote:
Are contemporary American Christians really so weak and defensive that they identify the terrible outrage of being exposed to pan-religious or secular expressions of the holiday season with the experience of the many millions of Christians who have suffered active discrimination, state-sanctioned repression of their private religious practices, and injury, torture and death, for confessing Christ?
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Old 12-18-2008, 09:12 PM
 
5 posts, read 2,772 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
Jews in America did no such thing. You're a victim of a wild imagination, that's all. Chanukah is an older celebration than Christmas, and for that matter, isn't actually a religious occasion at all. It memorializes the Maccabean victory over the Seleucids, which re-established an independent Kingdom of Judea. If you have to compare it to any occasion at all, it's more like the 4th of July than anything else.
Hannukah is more like the 4th of July than the Christians' Christamas?

What country do you live in?
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Old 12-18-2008, 09:14 PM
 
5 posts, read 2,772 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
Yes. This again. And again. And again. And again. Until YOU guys get the message that you are NOT going to stuff YOUR set of beliefs down anyone else's throat. And that IS what's driving Dobson, et al, totally NUTZOID and is why he and others are actually trying to force it down our throats by having the Alliance Defense Fund (ADF) seeking to insert the evango-fascist point of view into as many public laws as they can, at the federal, state and local levels. That is the sole purpose of the ADF, which is funded by Dobson, et al.

If you believe there is a war on christmas, then you are being had by the very forces who seek your money to move the USA towards a theocracy of the evango-fascist model. Those old farts are crazy, and if you believe them, I'll mark you down as just as crazy.
You have it backwards, Dobson is reacting to hate and bigotry.
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Old 12-18-2008, 09:19 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
90,297 posts, read 120,779,853 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IZAK View Post
You have it backwards, Dobson is reacting to hate and bigotry.
Dobson creates it, too!
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Old 12-18-2008, 09:41 PM
 
Location: Charleston, WV
3,106 posts, read 7,375,925 times
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Read Bill O'Reilly's "Why Christmas Matters" post at Bill O'Reilly: Bill's Column

In the post he tells how President Grant signed a law making Christmas Day a federal holiday because the nation was still divided after the Civil War and the feds were looking for ways to reunite the people. He then goes on to talk about how we are divided again and Christmas is in the middle of it.

I love Bill's final line: "Christmas should be a time of peace and understanding. It's sad that we now have to defend that."
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Old 12-18-2008, 09:48 PM
 
9,341 posts, read 29,688,177 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IZAK View Post
Hannukah is more like the 4th of July than the Christians' Christamas?

What country do you live in?

Chanukah (KHAH-nik-uh; KHAH-noo-kah) recalls the struggle for religious freedom and commemorates the Rededication of the Temple following the victory of the Jews over the Seleucid Greeks in the year 165 B.C.E. Chanukah means Rededication.

For the Irish among us, you may find some strong similarities between how the pagan Greeks treated the Jews of the 2nd century B.C.E. and how your Gaelic ancestors were treated by the English in the 17th, 18th & 19th Centuries C.E.

The story actually begins 173 years earlier in 338 B.C.E. when Philip of Macedonia invaded Greece. Athens and the Greek states, along with their pagan customs, became part of the Macedonian empire. Two years later, Philip died, and his son, Alexander, assumed the throne.

Alexander the Great, as he was known, conquered territories from Macedonia and Greece across the Persian empire to the borders of India. Included in this empire were Egypt and Israel, then considered part of Syria.

When Alexander's army reached Jerusalem, the Jews, already under Syrian occupation, did not resist. It was Alexander and his forces that first brought Hellenism to Jerusalem and the Jewish people. However, Alexander did not force people to adopt Greek customs and practices and the Jews did not rush to adopt the Greek religion and culture. (Because Alexander allowed Jews to worship and live in their own fashion, he was rewarded and was the only Gentile ever to be allowed to make a burnt offering in the Temple in Jerusalem.)

For all its beauty and accomplishments, especially in the fields of athletics, theater and philosophy, Hellenism had a dark side. In ancient Greece, behavior that is today considered deviant, such as infanticide, pedophilia, adultery and institutionalized prostitution, were routine and even encouraged. To Jews, who valued the Torah (Five Books of Moses) and the Commandments included therein concerning purity of family life, these aspects of Hellenistic culture were incompatible with their own.

When Alexander died, his empire was divided between his generals: Antigonus, Seleucus, and Ptolemy. Antigonus ruled Macedonia and Greece; Seleucus ruled Babylonia, Persia and Syria; and Ptolemy ruled Egypt and Israel.

Like Alexander, Ptolemy was a great champion of Hellenism. The empire he established dominated Israel for almost 100 years. It was under Ptolemaic rulers that many Jews began to adopt aspects of Greek culture. These Jews were referred to as Hellenists. For them, Greek culture represented the way of the future and the fastest way to succeed in Greek society.

In 199 B.C.E., the Greek Seleucid dynasty that ruled Syria took control of Israel from the Greek Ptolemies. It was under the Seleucids that anti-Jewish decrees were first issued against the practice of Judaism. Sabbath observance, the study of Torah, and male circumcisions, for example, were forbidden on pain of death. In addition, Greek gods and other symbols of Greek culture were put inside the Holy Temple, desecrating the center of Jewish ritual life in Jerusalem.

In the year 167 B.C.E. the Greek king, Antiochus Epiphanes began a campaign to force the Jews under his rule to formally adopt Greek practices. That's when one Jewish family, five sons and their old father, took a stand.

One day Greek forces arrived at Modiin, the home of Mattityahu, an elder and religious leader of the prestigious Hasmonean family. There, the army established a Greek religious altar and ordered Mattityahu to offer a sacrifice to a pagan god. Mattityahu refused, but while he stood firm, another Jew offered to make the sacrifice. Enraged, Mattityahu killed him and attacked the Greek soldiers. His action sparked a Jewish rebellion, which he and his sons led. They became known as the Maccabees, which in Hebrew, means Men Who are as Strong as Hammers.

Led by Judah Maccabee, the most famous of Mattityahu's five sons, the Maccabees, a force much smaller than the powerful Greek armies, finally triumphed in 165 B.C.E. On the 25th of Kislev, the Maccabees reclaimed the Jewish Temple, which was, at that point, almost unrecognizable as a place of Jewish worship.

The Talmud (includes the Oral Torah, the codified explanation of how to obey the 613 Commandments given at Sinai and found in the Torah) says that when the Jewish army wanted to rededicate the Temple, they were unable to find enough specially prepared oil to light the Menorah, a holy lamp, or candelabra, used in the Temple service.

According to rabbinical myth, in one Temple chamber, the Maccabees found a single bottle of oil, which normally would have lasted only one night. However, by a miracle, the one bottle of oil lasted eight nights, until new kosher (ritually clean) oil, fit for Temple use, could be produced.

The true miracle of Chanukah is that the Jewish people even dared to fight, let alone defeat the Greek army and were able to rededicate the Temple. The Maccabees were outnumbered, poorly trained and hardly equipped, but that did not stop them from trying. According to all the calculations of military experts and against all rules of logic, the Jews should never have had the ability to defeat their enemies, especially when it came to the Greek empire. But, they did and this is the actual miracle of Chanukah.


Jews light the CHANUKAH MENORAH in memory of the Menorah which was used in the Temple. The Chanukah Menorah has 8 branches, the Temple Menorah has 7 branches. The 7-branch Temple Menorah is the religious symbol of the Jewish faith (the 6-pointed Star of David is the secular symbol of the Jewish people). The 7-branch Temple Menorah was taken by Titus after he put down the last Jewish uprising in about 70 C.E. and it can be found today cemented into Titus' Arch in Rome.

Much of the preceding was derived from information obtained at:

......Judaism 101
......www.everythingjewish.com
......The Orthodox Union
......judaism.about.com
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:11 PM
 
9,341 posts, read 29,688,177 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PortnoyC View Post
Please also know "BCE" is still dated to the birth of Christ (aka "BC"), despite your hate of that fact.
BCE = Before the Common Era
CE = Common Era

Quote:
Originally Posted by PortnoyC View Post
The fact remains that Hannukah to Jews is on the level of Purim and Sukkot, and is not considered a major holiday.
Sukkot (soo-KOHT, Lev. 23:33-43), along with Pesach (PEH-sahkh, PAY-sahkh = Passover, Ex. 12:14-20, 13:1-10 and Lev. 23:4-8) and Shavuot (shuh-VOO-oht, Lev. 21:15-16, 21) are the 3 Biblically commanded Pilgrimage Festivals that were given by the Almighty at Sinai "for all time". Since they were given "for all time", the Christian versions (not celebrated by all Christian denominations) are Tabernacles, Easter and Pentecost.
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Old 12-18-2008, 10:43 PM
 
273 posts, read 342,876 times
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I can certainly understand a non-christian's desire to use a frame of reference that does not use the term "christ". BCE and CE are accepted frames of reference. Do Christians see this as an assault on their faith also?
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Old 12-18-2008, 11:46 PM
 
Location: Cali
3,955 posts, read 7,200,161 times
Reputation: 2308
Quote:
Originally Posted by chauncy View Post
I can certainly understand a non-christian's desire to use a frame of reference that does not use the term "christ". BCE and CE are accepted frames of reference. Do Christians see this as an assault on their faith also?
Not at all being that BCE & CE can be interpreted as Before Christian Era and Christian Era.
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Old 12-18-2008, 11:59 PM
 
273 posts, read 342,876 times
Reputation: 72
Quote:
Originally Posted by CamaroGuy View Post
Not at all being that BCE & CE can be interpreted as Before Christian Era and Christian Era.
Ok, that's a relief. I thought there was going to be another episode of fake christian outrage.
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