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WOW is the disconnect enormous!! We already teach of how great America is..THat's all we get in school! What are talking about? I'm referring to balance at home and in school not this fairytale that you speak of. I know I'll never changed your mind on any of this but I do hope to open it. Funny thing is, you're talking about the "oppressed" bitching while this very thread was started so white folks could "*****" about reverse racism..Read through all the bitching if you don't believe them. I've simply tried to show how absurd that is. The last thing white folks in America should be doing is bitching about freaking reverse-racism. Just so you know, I am the upper class black you speak of and we of all people know our history and will most certainly pass that to our children, so you don't speak for me and mine. I know much of white America wants to forget the civil rights movement as fast as it can even if it mean fabricating terms like reverse-racism. No one in America ever tells Jews to "just forget the holacaust". You know why, because that wasn't America's fault. We'll pass the buck in a heartbeat but. I am also provideding great perspective. I don't look through the same rose colored glasses you must look through. Your perspective is warped in my opinion. You want us to lie about history and just forget it, not gonna happen with me. What is history for if we don't learn from it bad and good?
THe bolded portion I quoted is completely absurd. I would be typing forever if I would respond to that mess.
I don't agree with the white idiots in this thread, but some of those feelings stemm from the idea that Whites take an overwhemling share of the blame for the world problems. In America, it may be justified, but globally? Naw.
I think you and me agree on more than you may realize. You think I'm trying to put history in the grave, when nothing can be farther from the truth. I'm simply saying that using that history as an excuse to further act in an anti-social manner is inexcuseable and determental to the equality you seek to achieve....
The reality is that there are many types of prejudice and injustice normally accompanies it. I think it is more important to lead your individual life with dignity, treating all well, than to spend time worrying about how others behave or think.
It is true that prejudice may be a way some people channel dysfunction. It may be as the last poster said that crime has nothing to do with race.
I was recently getting some physical therapy for an accident injury, and a Hispanic woman looked at me and said that her daughter-in-law was as lazy as a white person. Now, this woman speaking was rather lazy herself, and very over-weight due to overeating. I ate lunch with her every day, though I am not telling you that to criticize her but to give you the picture. She knew that I was part white and part Hispanic. All of the other people there were Hispanic. I reminded her that many white people think I'm all white and in the past might have occasionally said something about "lazy Hispanics" and that many people have that impression, so how is it right for her to say something like that, especially to me since I was one of the hardest working patients there. She was stubborn and stuck to her story, and then she said, "When I first saw you, I thought you were a stuck-up white woman." I told her, "You see that you are the stuck-up one, making racist judgments without even knowing me. Do you think you do that because you really think you're better than me or because you fear I think I'm better than you?
She didn't know what to say and just make wise cracks. I wasn't personally offended though what she said was ignorant and offensive. I knew it was her problems.
For me, race is a non-issue. Cultures may be an issue in reality. I have a friend who is black and who grew up in a very rough part of town, with each sibling having a different absent father. She is an amazing, incredibly hard-working wonderful mother and single. I love her dearly, and yet I limit the time I spend around her family. Why? Because we are so culturally different that I actually feel uncomfortable sometimes. For kid's birthday parties, her relatives will guzzle very tall beers, smoke, and generally be a bit unwholesome. I am used to giving very wholesome parties for children, and I'm pretty plain jane wholesome anyway in my entertainment tastes. Her relatives will joke about things that happen in their neighborhoods, which are not all the same but some are rough. I don't want my son to think some of those things are funny. I know they are just accepting their surroundings and trying to make light of it. And, they are nice people, truly. But, we are just too different. They eat heavy foods with lots of fat and sugar. I eat lots of fresh vegetables and whole grains. I understand why we are different and I do visit with them. Some of their friends are white but culturally more like them. I have black friends that are more like me than they are like them. So, I visit with my friend and sometimes drop by when her family is there, but I don't go to every party her family has. I only really stop by on holidays to say "Hello" and then visit with my friend alone at other times. It's not race, though. It's culture. And, how comfortable do you think they would feel with my friends at an art film or the symphony? I do invite people, and some like it but others don't. It's the same thing, not prejudice but culture.
I do think it's very good for kids to mix in school if all are truly getting their educational needs met, and I mean that you put the advanced kids in advanced classes and so forth. And, you work hard to find those kids who have advanced aptitudes but need extra tutoring to help get them where they can be in advanced classes. And, I think it's important to have equal pay for equal work, not just saying we do it, but doing it.
My experience here in Texas is that in the small town where I am, there is a culture of mediocrity. There is some excellence that is quite notable. But, if you take a job and go in and do beautifully and get things done twice as fast and are trying to always do the right thing, you will be run out of there because you are a threat, and to be threatening is offensive here.
I think a lot of this talk about race is related to people feeling threatened by another culture, about perhaps another group of people having the same opportunities, about losing relative favor, etc. Yes, some people who have historically been oppressed do end up as oppressors. That's wrong. But, how much of our perception has to do with the subconscious assumption that we naturally should have the best jobs, best school acceptances, scholarships, business favor, etc.?
Really, so many men in my life (bosses, dates, husband, etc.) have tried to lord their maleness over me because they were threatened by my competence. They grew up expecting to have first place and my generation was trained to give it to them. So, my youthful abilities were spent supporting the dreams of someone who was less able than I was, supporting bosses who were less able than I was, etc. I'm not being conceited. I can do some things well and not other things. But, as a woman I was often expected to make the men look good and do it on far less pay than a man would make doing the same thing and getting all the credit.
I think we can be racist that way too, expecting the other races to stay out of our way and when they assert themselves, rise to the occasion or have their own interest magazines, we act offended because we are threatened.
It is true that having a magazine for white people only would cause outrage and probably actually encourage hateful racism. I don't know if the black magazines encourage racism, frankly. I have only seen a few. But, I like what Oprah Winfrey is doing with O Magazine. She does feature people of color that I have never heard of, and why not? But, she also features white people I have never heard of and a few of each that I have. She addresses issues and interests to people of all races. She is integrating without ignoring special issues. She is finding what is in common as well as exposing what is different. She is breaking stereotypes while honoring traditions that are healthy.
I don't think the key is objecting to black media. Black people actually don't all love those magazines and entertainment options. Some are offended by BET, as I am. I think the point is to let that happen, as people who have historically been voiceless may really need a defined voice to feel safe and be safe and be heard at all. Racism isn't all over, nor are the effects. I wouldn't discourage black oriented media any more than I would discourage Hispanic media. For the latter, it's not just the language but the culture also that is represented, and I think the black media is speaking of culture more than skin when you get right down to it. And, it is in the best cases encouraging healthy living just as Oprah is, imperfectly but consciously.
I don't agree with everything Oprah or Essence promotes, but I am glad we have them. I prefer Oprah, but that's me.
As far as white people having white magazines, we already do. They just don't say they are for white people, and the good thing is that they are being much more inclusive, just as Oprah includes whites as her magazine is not just for one race.
I hope we don't get too worried about this. I hope we can just be good people and treat all people with respect. It can be hard when cultures clash, but it can happen with personal humility that we all need. I need to learn from others always, and so do all of us.
I found this thread just a boring regurgitation of old talking points, so I skipped to one random page and I'm glad I went to this one. Some things deserve to be repeated and this is one of the few things that do.
THanks..I have actually gotten a lot of reps for this thread but most seem to want to avoid controversial topics or taking non-mainstream/un-popular stances in the open which is fine..I just don't care, it's a freaking message board and the truth is the truth.
The thing about controversy is that some people will listen and learn from it, while others will stand firm in their beliefs.
You articulated my feelings so much better than I could have. I believe many like myself read your responses, but felt no need to join in because you represented us well. To start this type of non sense posting deserved the direct and honest response that you provided.
The thing about controversy is that some people will listen and learn from it, while others will stand firm in their beliefs.
You articulated my feelings so much better than I could have. I believe many like myself read your responses, but felt no need to join in because you represented us well. To start this type of non sense posting deserved the direct and honest response that you provided.
You did a wonderful job, thank you
I am on the other side. I thought Tank sounded very narrow minded, a bit immature, young, and uneducated. Are you a first year student because your arguments have become very trite? You fail to acknowledge any points made by anyone but your own. When you speak, you cap every thing off with, "that is the truth". Assuming of course you speak nothing but the "truth". You use "Iraq", for every argument, yet fail to go into any details beyond the overall consensus that "whitey" is there to take over. Things you are not sure of how to answer, you say I would answer, but I could write a book or write for ever. Which seems like a sneaky way of having to avoid giving any real reasons for questions asked to you by others. For every question you decide to answer, you use the same old wishy washy answers. which finally is what has led me to believe that you really don't know what it is that you are talking about. You say that you like to "find" the answers, yet you fail to provide any. There is no answer given to you that will ever suit you, therefore your arguments have become a way to merely rant and moan. Every good answer given you dismiss and play the history card. Which of course you fail to back with any evidence of your own. What is it that you are trying to solve here? The more I read your posts the more I am convinced that you really don't have a clue of what you are talking about.
I am on the other side. I thought Tank sounded very narrow minded, a bit immature, young, and uneducated. Are you a first year student because your arguments have become very trite? You fail to acknowledge any points made by anyone but your own. When you speak, you cap every thing off with, "that is the truth". Assuming of course you speak nothing but the "truth". You use "Iraq", for every argument, yet fail to go into any details beyond the overall consensus that "whitey" is there to take over. Things you are not sure of how to answer, you say I would answer, but I could write a book or write for ever. Which seems like a sneaky way of having to avoid giving any real reasons for questions asked to you by others. For every question you decide to answer, you use the same old wishy washy answers. which finally is what has led me to believe that you really don't know what it is that you are talking about. You say that you like to "find" the answers, yet you fail to provide any. There is no answer given to you that will ever suit you, therefore your arguments have become a way to merely rant and moan. Every good answer given you dismiss and play the history card. Which of course you fail to back with any evidence of your own. What is it that you are trying to solve here? The more I read your posts the more I am convinced that you really don't have a clue of what you are talking about.
Are you really back? The admitted racist who tried to tie getting run out of a group home to racism. I'm not at all suprised that you'd disagree. You've already been exposed.
Are you really back? The admitted racist who tried to tie getting run out of a group home to racism. I'm not at all suprised that you'd disagree. You've already been exposed.
What about ME? Haven't I been exposed, too? I'm the one who suggested that the best way to remedy the past is to make the best of what one has today. I suggested the reason we 'went into Iraq' was arrogance and stupidity, not racism. Why isn't anybody getting mad at ME?
Another guy, far more famous than I'll EVER be (a "Doctor" somebody) once expressed hope for a society in which a person would be judged "not by the color of his skin, but by the content of his character". The guy passed away some years ago, but if he came back, I'm sure he'd feel VERY disappointed. There are LOTS of people VERY willing to discuss skin color these days, but almost NOBODY willing to admit to the importance of "character" (i.e., 'behavior'). The Doctor would be VERY unhappy with that turn of events, I'm sure....
Meanwhile, I can't help the 'rage' I see on this forum. I could SUGGEST living well, and making the most of your potential, but I know that sounds racist. So I'll just suggest "take two aspirin, and avoid contact with the 'oppressor' as much as possible".
I'd ALSO suggest minimizing contact with impressionable children, even if they're your own. Hatred and a misplaced sense of entitlement are a 'contagious illness'. Impressionable young kids CAN be negatively affected by this.
What about ME? Haven't I been exposed, too? I'm the one who suggested that the best way to remedy the past is to make the best of what one has today. I suggested the reason we 'went into Iraq' was arrogance and stupidity, not racism. Why isn't anybody getting mad at ME?
Another guy, far more famous than I'll EVER be (a "Doctor" somebody) once expressed hope for a society in which a person would be judged "not by the color of his skin, but by the content of his character". The guy passed away some years ago, but if he came back, I'm sure he'd feel VERY disappointed. There are LOTS of people VERY willing to discuss skin color these days, but almost NOBODY willing to admit to the importance of "character" (i.e., 'behavior'). The Doctor would be VERY unhappy with that turn of events, I'm sure....
Meanwhile, I can't help the 'rage' I see on this forum. I could SUGGEST living well, and making the most of your potential, but I know that sounds racist. So I'll just suggest "take two aspirin, and avoid contact with the 'oppressor' as much as possible".
I'd ALSO suggest minimizing contact with impressionable children, even if they're your own. Hatred and a misplaced sense of entitlement are a 'contagious illness'. Impressionable young kids CAN be negatively affected by this.
May you all find peace.
LOL..I had previously noticed that you had suddenly went of the deep end but ouch. Do you need attention or something? Did you just invoke MLK and pretend like you actually represent what he spoke of. YOU want to forget what he fought for as fast as you can. If you choose to groom your children into believing falsehoods, be my guest but I wont do it to my children. I guess impressionable young children should be taught a fabricated history or propaganda. Where did I ever dismiss character? It is very important but our character is developed in the same way our behavior is, through our history. I know that's boring and you want to forget it but yeah it's the truth. I know it's unpopular to speak the truth on CD but hey why not. I possess no hate just a deep appreciaton for history and its lessons both good and bad. You quite evidently don't and claim you "just want to move on"..Yeah, I'm all for moving on but with a true sense of where we all came from and how we got here not some gloss over lie that makes one sector of society feel less guilty. As far as a sense of entitlement..I do have one. I feel that I am entitled to be treated fairly and equally in this country. You may think I am but you don't walk in my shoes. When that day of total equality comes, I'll gladly let you know. But for now, try and keep you smug remarks to yourself. They've cheapened your stance on this entire matter.
Unfortunately, I can't rep you. However, I wholeheartedly agree w/your points (especially the bolded comments).
~ButterBrownBiscuit~
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tank1906
LOL..I had previously noticed that you had suddenly went of the deep end but ouch. Do you need attention or something? Did you just invoke MLK and pretend like you actually represent what he spoke of. YOU want to forget what he fought for as fast as you can. If you choose to groom your children into believing falsehoods, be my guest but I wont do it to my children. I guess impressionable young children should be taught a fabricated history or propaganda. Where did I ever dismiss character? It is very important but our character is developed in the same way our behavior is, through our history. I know that's boring and you want to forget it but yeah it's the truth. I know it's unpopular to speak the truth on CD but hey why not. I possess no hate just a deep appreciaton for history and its lessons both good and bad. You quite evidently don't and claim you "just want to move on"..Yeah, I'm all for moving on but with a true sense of where we all came from and how we got here not some gloss over lie that makes one sector of society feel less guilty. As far as a sense of entitlement..I do have one. I feel that I am entitled to be treated fairly and equally in this country. You may think I am but you don't walk in my shoes. When that day of total equality comes, I'll gladly let you know. But for now, try and keep you smug remarks to yourself. They've cheapened your stance on this entire matter.
LOL..I had previously noticed that you had suddenly went of the deep end but ouch. Do you need attention or something? Did you just invoke MLK and pretend like you actually represent what he spoke of. YOU want to forget what he fought for as fast as you can. If you choose to groom your children into believing falsehoods, be my guest but I wont do it to my children. I guess impressionable young children should be taught a fabricated history or propaganda. Where did I ever dismiss character? It is very important but our character is developed in the same way our behavior is, through our history. I know that's boring and you want to forget it but yeah it's the truth. I know it's unpopular to speak the truth on CD but hey why not. I possess no hate just a deep appreciaton for history and its lessons both good and bad. You quite evidently don't and claim you "just want to move on"..Yeah, I'm all for moving on but with a true sense of where we all came from and how we got here not some gloss over lie that makes one sector of society feel less guilty. As far as a sense of entitlement..I do have one. I feel that I am entitled to be treated fairly and equally in this country. You may think I am but you don't walk in my shoes. When that day of total equality comes, I'll gladly let you know. But for now, try and keep you smug remarks to yourself. They've cheapened your stance on this entire matter.
MLK !! Of COURSE ! That was the guy I was thinking of....how forgetful of me...
Thanks...now that you mention it, I DO feel 'cheapened'. Guess I'm just in WAY over my head here.
All the best to you...and your family.
(PS...a friendly suggestion...and ONLY a suggestion..you might want to watch that assertion that "character is developed through (our) history"....seriously, think about it...because if that's TRUE...and those with a "bad History" are destined to therefore have a "bad character"..then there's no end to where that argument could go. It ALMOST sounds worthy of the KKK, in a roundabout sort of way.
Only suggesting that this is PROBABLY a line of thinking that could cause you more problems with others in the future. Bad "history" or not, NONE of us are exempt from the need to have "character"...and I think few people would argue with me on THAT point)...
Last edited by macmeal; 02-03-2009 at 12:38 PM..
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