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there is no denial of benefits? this is true except in cases where there is no funding for specific medication or perhaps you are too old and must forego treatment in favor of someone younger. it happens often! very seldom do days go by without the nhs being dragged through the coals. the problem i have with this is that those people who paid their nhs contributions for life thought they were covered 100% only to find out that they were too old to qualify for treatment or that their specific illnesses aren't covered.
on smokers and the obese, while it is true that the nhs did not encourage their habits, free medication when it all goes t*** up doesn't discourage it. in pointing out the fact the US has similar problems with obesity and smoking related illnesses, you fail to take into account medicare and medicaid which cover a good portion of these people. i have a friend who controls his type 11 diabetes largely through diet.
the thing is that you still haven't covered the point that the nhs suffered huge shortages during the boom. what is it going to look like now when tax receipts are down and the starin on public coffers is reaching breaking point?
I am saying it is not only the NHS that denies benefits. Private insurance companies in the US do it all the time.
I doubt medicare (for people >65) and medicaid (for people on welfare in most states) cover "a good portion of these people" (smokers). Most smokers start smoking in their teens. You can control type II diabetes with diet. But you can't control type I with diet, and the patient is not at fault for getting type I. Type II is somewhat related to lifestyle, but not entirely.
I am saying it is not only the NHS that denies benefits. Private insurance companies in the US do it all the time.
I doubt medicare (for people >65) and medicaid (for people on welfare in most states) cover "a good portion of these people" (smokers). Most smokers start smoking in their teens. You can control type II diabetes with diet. But you can't control type I with diet, and the patient is not at fault for getting type I. Type II is somewhat related to lifestyle, but not entirely.
Something that those that talk about denials with an NHS is that in the UK people can purchase a supplemental insurance that, should a treatment of any kind be denied by the government, would kick in. I believe, according to poster GEERO from another thread informed us, people carry insurance for procedures for plastic surgeries. The cost of these plans are relatively cheap because, well they are NOT utilized often as the NHS has been sufficiently covering their citizens there.
It also gives little "perks". For example, with insurance you can't just GET a private room in a hospital. You get what you get becaues the insurance is paying for it NOT you. If you want a private room you have to pay the difference (and it's not cheap). In the UK if you carry a supplemental insurance you can get that supplemental insurance to pay the difference for you so that you get that "upgrade" so to speak.
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 58robbo
do you not think that the pharamceuticals should have this right. after all they spent 10-20 years developing the drug, spent all that money on trials, went through all that red tape. why would a company bother going through all of this if not to make a profit? considering at the end of all this that their drug in all likelyhood won't be approved.
Exactly. Thank you for making this point. If you take the profit incentive out of drug manufacturing, then what company in their right minds would go through the hassle and expense of all of this governmental red tape to get their drug approved?
LOL.. .. first of all.. get off your high horse and stop with the ridiculous propoganda of "you just want someting for free" NO.. this whole debate isn't and never was about getting something for FREE. Perhaps if you stopped listen to stupid rhetoric you'd see what is really wanted and needed is AFFORDABLE access to health insurance FOR ALL Americans.. rich, poor and middle class.
First of all.. the fastest growing segment of unsired are PEOPLE WHO ARE WORKING.. that's right.. NOT welfare collecting potatoe chip eaters .. BUT WORKING MIDDLE CLASS FAMILIES with an income around the $50K mark. You want to complain about people who are getting healthcare for FREE that do not WORK or contribute..
GUESS WHAT.. they are already and have been getting FREE HEALTHCARE at the cost of all of us!! POOR on Medicaid GET FREE HEALTHCARE.. and here's a doozy.. ALL THOSE CRIMINALS LOCKED UP IN PRISON.. get FREE healthcare
You want to make ignorant self righteous statements like that.. then you can go and live with your head in the sand..
BTW.. I don't EAT potatoe chips. I work out an hour and a half every day and plan on running a local marathon next month. I'm a diabetic (juvenile tyep 1) who works out as part of a regimen to keep me healthy and be responsible for my health. I happen to be sitting at home on the computer because I'm currently unemployed and have been looking for a job in this crappy economy since December. (I gave up working for myself when I moved to my new state and have been looking for work ever since). I have taken a beating in this recession in more than one way!
But considering you are posting on these boards too.. and you want to hurl ridiculous insults of which you are extremely OFF BASE.. I could say the same about you? Why are YOU posting on this board and NOT doing work
then maybe all those criminals in prison should not get any health care at all unless it is life threatening. I do work for a living, and have health insurance as well. I post here on my free time.
I dont care if you eat potato chips or not, the point was that welfare cases should not be recieving any kind of federal or state aid at all, and no free health care for anyone.
our Constitution says general welfare, not welfare from cradle to grave, not getting a paycheck either.
I also believe in self responsibility, and that NO ONE should be getting any free health care from the federal goverment outside of the military.
Exactly. Thank you for making this point. If you take the profit incentive out of drug manufacturing, then what company in their right minds would go through the hassle and expense of all of this governmental red tape to get their drug approved?
imo it's the red tape which is hampering competition and leading to high prices. i'd prefer it if the fda removed their noses. i personally would not be trying any exploratory drugs but i don't think that anyone should be stopped if they feel it's worth the risk.
while i'm on the subject of drugs, i think that it's worthwhile mentioning that most of what ails us is self imposed and could be cured by changes in lifestyle, diet and with alternative therapies. having said that, we like to 'have our cake and eat it' for lack of a better term. that is to say we'll continue to eat the high cholesterol foods because all we need is a pill to balance our indulgences
this culture seems to permeate through every aspect of our society. we want to eat ourselves silly without getting fat, we want booms without the bust, highs without the lows, fitness without exercise! it's all disneyland if you ask me!
And then the Constitution goes on to say what specific rights the government has to do those things. The preamble to the Constitution does not give government free reign to do anything it thinks is best!
Please show something in the Constitution, not the preamble which supports your points. There is a very big difference between the two.
You're not asking me to dig around are you? Forget about it, the preamble is as far as I go.
I've lived with, around and worked for the Fed my whole life and I'm not convinced the US should go UHC because I do think this government is in shambles and quite frankly incompetent in half the things it does. All I know and absolutely convinced of is this health insurance thing is going to get worse and worse and needs to be fixed somehow or another. Someone earlier in this thread mentioned Hillary Clinton and how she was a bust trying to handle the insurance business, about 18 years ago, and will go down as a bust now, but I can tell you it wasn't a quarter as bad 18 years ago as it is now.
then maybe all those criminals in prison should not get any health care at all unless it is life threatening. I do work for a living, and have health insurance as well. I post here on my free time.
I dont care if you eat potato chips or not, the point was that welfare cases should not be recieving any kind of federal or state aid at all, and no free health care for anyone.
our Constitution says general welfare, not welfare from cradle to grave, not getting a paycheck either.
I also believe in self responsibility, and that NO ONE should be getting any free health care from the federal goverment outside of the military.
Your problem is that you label a UHC FREE.. LOL
First off FREE HEALTHCARE exists.. those taht get it ARE the poor and those in Prison!!
I'm not a welfare recepient. Neither are the millions that are uninsured (80% of the 47 millions are your fellow citizens). Welfare recipients do not qualify as "uninsured" BECAUSE they are on medicaid.
I'm advocating for a system that provides access to to healtchare for all citizens at any income level.. not just for those lucky enough to afford it. A lot of hard working NOT LAZY types are out there unable to afford insurance and can not access the treatment they need because they do not have money to pay the premiums and/or deductables and they don't have enough to pay for the treatment WITHOUT the deductable. The right likes to spin the UHC idea as "FREE" healthcare. The largest growing segment of the unemployed are households making MIDDLE income which is in the 50K range. These people are NOT lazy, not collecting welfare NOR do they want to.
I want to work and NEVER would even THINK about collecting a welfare check. Back before I worked for myself i never so much as collected an unemployment check because I was right back out there looking for work. I could have been slow about it and in essence collected "free money" for the next few months, but I didn't. I got out there and found a job and went to work.
I nor anyone else for that matter,deserves to be cast aside as garbage with a "too bad, so sad" mentality. Not everyone can make a large income..
I don't WANT healthcare, I NEED healthcare. Who in their right mind would ever really WANT to have to take medications or get sick and go to the doctor.
I don't mind paying copays and contributing to the cost of meds at all..but it should be within an acceptable realm of affordability. Premiums have risen 4x's the income levels have in this country... and the middle class is finding themselves in a pickle..
Without a strong heatly middle class workforce , this nation will be in ruins.
When someone gets sick, has a huge medical bill because of it and declares bankruptcy, they are gettng Free healthcare by default and passing the costs on to everyone else. Don't you think they would rather avoid the humiliation and contribute toward their own healthcare. BUt when the contribution required far exceeds their capability despite the fact that they are working people, you have problems.. REAL problems.
It's not okay to BE okay with a horrible situation simply because you are currently not experiencing it. Because you never know where life can take you. YOU could very easily end up on the flip side of that coin just as much as the next guy. NO ONE is immune to the problems with the system as it is now.. they just THINK they are with a false sense of security.
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