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I could post numerous articles or links, but you would not believe them.
You could, but you didn't. That is your fatal error. Speaking to open forum presuming that they're a category because you've habituated yourself into believing in black and white righteousness alienates anyone not in your affinity clan. Liberalism is not inherently wrong. Conservativism is not inherently wrong. It's inherently wrong to believe that any one ideology has ALL the answers, ALL the time.
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Originally Posted by GOPATTA2D
You recognize that batteries are classified as toxic waste. The mfg. process for batteries involves massive strip mining, is hugely energy dependent, and results in net energy loss by most analysis. The average car-type Ni-Mh battery lasts ~ five years in use - far less when the vehicle is used in real-life applications. Each pack weighs in excess of 600 pounds and contains 60% toxic waste by weight. Lithium packs show promise, are less damaging to the environment, but also are hugely energy dependent from a mfg. process. There are still disposal issues. One must look at the entire lifecycle of a product - not just the end result. If you view the total energy requirements as currency, electric vehicles are currently analagous to spending a dollar to save a dime, both from a monetary and environmental standpoint.
Every mfg process is costly, but those costs can be offset significantly when volume demand gets factored.
I have the perspective of Paracelsus regarding toxicology.
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"All things are poison and nothing is without poison, only the dose permits something not to be poisonous."
This perspective includes the idea that proper channeling of resources, the inclusion of reclaimation in any mgmt plan, and the elements of basic chemistry can be recycled to useful or neutralized sources. How we go about things can be improved, but not unless we're willing to look honestly at the full picture of what it is we're engaged, acknowlege every toxic situation, and actively manage it through administrative controls. Excess administrative controls become a cost basis factor that disqualifies one technology over another. Coal can be made cleaner, but the costs are substantial in the current solution on the table. I'd rather tell them go back to the drawing board than tell them no. Let's see American ingenuity get dusted off and put to appropriate use for a change.
The demand for alternatives (in general) has made itself known vociferously for over 30yrs. Little to no progress has been made, at the behest of oppositional forces destroying any brick laid down in earnest. Our dependence upon foriegn oil can be seen as the limiting factor of our own economy (and in turn the global economy). Technology is showing signs of promising avenues that must be genuinely pursued, not hamstrung by status quo forces in corporatism or in government. A few corporations have seen the tremendous opportunity that it is and invested in alternative R&D. Others continue to rail at & scoff the consumer demand. Famous last words of defunct organizations.
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Originally Posted by GOPATTA2D
Obama is going to bankrupt GM. We could have spent the $14 billion we gave them and built a new nuclear plant. We need to concentrate on infrastructure first.
Obama is not doing anything to GM. GM has done it to themselves. They knew they were in trouble for years, their actions since then have dug a deeper hole. Given the opportunity to grab the yoke firmly to break the death spiral, they failed to come up with viable business plan. I will be saddened to see them defunct, but if they refuse the cure, they are beyond all help America can reasonably offer.
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Originally Posted by GOPATTA2D
the Left, which is promoting electric vehicles, is also opposed to nuclear power. We do not have enough water to generate sufficient hydro-electric power to power million of electric vehicles. Wind power is also not feasible on a national basis; barely even a regional basis. Coal is dirty. The net effect of generating electricy with coal and charging batteries versus just buring oil is negative. The only current technology is nuclear, which the Left opposes in almost all cases. When was the last nuclear power plant built? .
No one solution is the answer. There are ideal combinations for each circumstance and geographical optimized harness of energy. Sandia lab is doing excellent work to further the capture of solar power. I do not believe EV's have as many applications rurally as they do for densely populated areas or suburbia. The combustion engine is vital for certain applications requiring tremendous torque (for instance, can you imagine a frankenstien battery powered earth moving machine? Not really feasable.)
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Originally Posted by GOPATTA2D
Y'all love Obama, so nothing out of his mouth has to have any stitch of logic. Nothing he does, even if it would be identical to Hitler or Carter did, would ever be wrong in your eyes. You're unwilling to do what's in the best interest of your country, even if he kills your country. Consider me a current Republican. Peace
Peace, as in, peaceful marches that resort to violence to make their point??
Intellectual dishonesty played at such a childish level betrays your lack of qualification to participate in adult conversations. Making a career of soliciting an enemy, I'm certain you'll find one everywhere you roam because the projection machine installed is within. Mentally ill people are convinced everyone else is the problem. I've seen this sickness of the mind in various degrees/% of every subgroup category in existence. What usurped the Republican party has embraced illness fully, and in the process, displaced actual conservativism.
Don't agree with a lot of Obama's policies and hate to see a bankruptcy hurt retirees, etc. -- but may have to agree on this one.
How many times have we bailed out the US Automakers? Chrysler got a bailout 30 years ago and how many times/ how much more have the car companies gotten since then?
Bigjon I hope companies like Tesla step up quickly because opportunity is in every market condition. Yes we can absolutely does apply, even if you cannot see it, and even if you've convinced yourself Obama is a vast left wing conspiracy. I mean, really now? Oligarchy playing shell games got it's notice served on wall street and detroit, and when the books get opened to the light of day, OZ is seen for what OZ is on merit alone. Let's see innovation have a shot. That's what made us the economic powerhouse we were, and what will guarantee a future.
Tesla is opening stores I see. The model S family sedans look promising, and hopefully they can get mass mfg set up for lowering the sticker price. 50K is a big pill to swallow for most Americans. Seems to me guys who know a thing or two about mass mfg might be available for hire shortly.
If GM was allowed to go into bankruptcy a lot of their equipment would have been sold off at an affordable price. It sounds bad but things that have outlived their usefulness sometimes can be a huge help to someone who is just finding that usefulness. Overhead right now I think is their biggest obstacle. They've been around for a decent amount of time but are just starting to find their place and get noticed IMO. Their technology in batteries is critical for other sectors and they have some really good ideas.
Being more damaging to the environment doesn't really matter when we are running out of oil. It may not happen tomorrow but it's bound to happen and continuing to build infrastructure that requires oil isn't really all that smart. that being said we still have lot and lots of things that do run on oil and we also make money as a country selling it. Kinda like the rule for drug dealers, "don't get high on your own supply."
The electric cars themselves are way more efficient than the gasoline motors they are going to replace. For example thermal loss on an internal combustion engine is around 80%. Meaning only about 20% of the energy coming from the gas is being used. Electric cars are above 80%.
The problem with other fuels like ethanol is they have a negative impact on prices from the crop that needs to be grown to support it. Affecting millions and maybe billions grocery bills.
Recharging the cars with coal power is a problem. There is other alternatives but they will never be produced as long as money is to be made, because that power would be free for all of us and it was created 90 years ago by the same guy that brought everything you know today as power to us. AC power that is and the motors that run off them effectively making him the most influential unknown intellect ever. It just so happens his name was Tesla also...
the possibility exists that a bankruptcy would rid gm of its failing US opperations and leave its foreign holdings alone. or maybe the noose might actually get large enough to bring everyone down with us. one can only hope.
If you own stock in any company you'd better check it's books and make sure it hasn't borrowed from the government. The President may decide to fire that CEO and file bankruptcy too..nothing stopping them now. The government is now running business in America.
If you own stock in any company you'd better check it's books and make sure it hasn't borrowed from the government. The President may decide to fire that CEO and file bankruptcy too..nothing stopping them now. The government is now running business in America.
We are living pages in a history book folks.
Very true. The government has taken over corporations and the banks.
Let me get this strait. First we fork over billions to the US auto industry, then after we throw billions and billions away we tell them to file bankruptcy.
Don't agree with a lot of Obama's policies and hate to see a bankruptcy hurt retirees, etc. -- but may have to agree on this one.
How many times have we bailed out the US Automakers? Chrysler got a bailout 30 years ago and how many times/ how much more have the car companies gotten since then?
Bankruptcy timed last fall would have been disasterous because cascading systemic failure was in motion. Whomever is falling upon their own sword, was it truly their own doing, or was it because our own government failed to regulate? The truth will out, the wheat and chaff will separate. I favor capitalism, and honest business practice. I will NEVER defend corruption or charlatanism, no matter where it resides.
To their credit, Chrysler repaid that last bailout under Reagan, in part by supplying govt vehicles. If they're not doing well now... unless they're willing to have their books subjected to daylight (the private ownership Cerebus group, not publically traded, allows them to hide the big picture) I don't believe it's correct to subsidize any loan for them. As for AIG-- Bush had a mole taking notes for 5 yrs, but no prosecution was pursued. Books getting opened to daylight, lets see who was guilty of what and when.
People's retirement getting hurt is wrong, but it was the responsibility of GM to live up to their obligations in that compensation plan. CEO's get their pension up front, regardless of company performance, and that right there should tell everyone plain as day that something is horribly foul in corporate america.
ERISA being legally gotten around through loopholes and smarmy games is what's in question. The airline unions being denied their pensions set a dangerous precedence, and hurts the relationship of employees w/business.
http://resources.bnet.com/topic/pension+benefit+guaranty+corp.+and+united+airlines .html (broken link)
http://www.dol.gov/dol/topic/health-plans/erisa.htm (broken link)
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