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It's getting to be a well-established pattern. Whenever today's leftist extremists announce some "statistic" that supports their cause, check into it carefully. It usually turns out to be false.
The leftists have been working for a while on the story that the violence in Mexico is the U.S.'s fault, and that we must start banning guns from our own citizens in order to help Mexico. Of course, they've used every excuse under the sun to ban guns from law-abiding American citizens, and this is just the latest try. It seems to be the "reason behind the push to reinstate the failed "Assault Weapons Ban" - the one that didn't ban any assault weapons and made no difference in crime rates during the ten years it was in place.
Unsurprisingly, it's not true.
-------------------------------------------
The Myth of 90 Percent: Only a Small Fraction of Guns in Mexico Come From U.S. - Presidential Politics | Political News - FOXNews.com (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2009/04/02/myth-percent-guns-mexico-fraction-number-claimed/ - broken link)
The Myth of 90 Percent: Only a Small Fraction of Guns in Mexico Come From U.S.
While 90 percent of the guns traced to the U.S. actually originated in the United States, the percent traced to the U.S. is only about 17 percent of the total number of guns reaching Mexico.
by William La Jeunesse and Maxim Lott
FOXNews.com
Thursday, April 02, 2009
EXCLUSIVE: You've heard this shocking "fact" before -- on TV and radio, in newspapers, on the Internet and from the highest politicians in the land: 90 percent of the weapons used to commit crimes in Mexico come from the United States.
-- Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said it to reporters on a flight to Mexico City.
-- CBS newsman Bob Schieffer referred to it while interviewing President Obama.
-- California Sen. Dianne Feinstein said at a Senate hearing: "It is unacceptable to have 90 percent of the guns that are picked up in Mexico and used to shoot judges, police officers and mayors ... come from the United States."
-- William Hoover, assistant director for field operations at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, testified in the House of Representatives that "there is more than enough evidence to indicate that over 90 percent of the firearms that have either been recovered in, or interdicted in transport to Mexico, originated from various sources within the United States."
There's just one problem with the 90 percent "statistic" and it's a big one:
It's just not true.
In fact, it's not even close. By all accounts, it's probably around 17 percent.
What's true, an ATF spokeswoman told FOXNews.com, in a clarification of the statistic used by her own agency's assistant director, "is that over 90 percent of the traced firearms originate from the U.S."
But a large percentage of the guns recovered in Mexico do not get sent back to the U.S. for tracing, because it is obvious from their markings that they do not come from the U.S.
"Not every weapon seized in Mexico has a serial number on it that would make it traceable, and the U.S. effort to trace weapons really only extends to weapons that have been in the U.S. market," Matt Allen, special agent of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), told FOX News.
A Look at the Numbers
In 2007-2008, according to ATF Special Agent William Newell, Mexico submitted 11,000 guns to the ATF for tracing. Close to 6,000 were successfully traced -- and of those, 90 percent -- 5,114 to be exact, according to testimony in Congress by William Hoover -- were found to have come from the U.S.
But in those same two years, according to the Mexican government, 29,000 guns were recovered at crime scenes.
In other words, 68 percent of the guns that were recovered were never submitted for tracing. And when you weed out the roughly 6,000 guns that could not be traced from the remaining 32 percent, it means 83 percent of the guns found at crime scenes in Mexico could not be traced to the U.S.
So, if not from the U.S., where do they come from? There are a variety of sources:
-- The Black Market. Mexico is a virtual arms bazaar, with fragmentation grenades from South Korea, AK-47s from China, and shoulder-fired rocket launchers from Spain, Israel and former Soviet bloc manufacturers.
(Full text of this article can be read at the above URL)
Yes, this is Obama propaganda in an effort to limit gun ownership in the US. Like Stalin, truth is relative to Barry, as long as the lie is used as a means to gain a political objective.
Oddly, all the firearms I own sit in gun safes around the state and have not been used to support Mexican drug gangs. I am sure the same is the case for every registered gun owner in America. Illegal guns and guns imported from other nations is not the personal responsibility of law abiding American gun owners and Barry should stop using this ruse in an effort to limit American gun ownership and rights.
Absolute Fox Propaganda. In the Cananea gunfight killing 20, five of who were Police officers every gun taken was traced back to the US. So believe what you want. They are tracing them, so when that gun you sold with no records is used to kill a Policeman, there may be a knock on your door
Very interesting. Where are the majority of the weapons actually coming from?
Good question because you can't buy rocket launchers, armor piercing bullets and grenades in the US. They aren't buying this stuff in the US despite what our government tells us. Gun control in the US will not stop Mexico. And this drug cartel is more dangerous then the South American cartel that operated in the 80's.
snippet:
“Quite frankly, in Mexico you can’t be armed enough,” said Mr Bethea. “The dynamic of this combat is approaching the early days of the Iraq war. The cartels’ men are well trained, disciplined and are armed with the latest weaponry, including armour-piercing bullets, rocket-launchers and grenades.”
snippet:
"Five rocket launchers, 271 grenades, 2,932 assault rifles, a submarine loaded with cocaine, and an anti-aircraft gun complete with blast shield were all seized by Mexican authorities between March 2008 and August 2009."
Location: Midessa, Texas Home Yangzhou, Jiangsu temporarily
1,506 posts, read 4,281,434 times
Reputation: 992
Quote:
Originally Posted by Little-Acorn
BTW, is there any law in the U.S. against taking a firearm out of the country?
As far as I know (please correct me if I'm wrong), the only laws against bringing a gun from the U.S. into Mexico, is enacted by Mexico, not the U.S.
It's not our problem.
May I suggest to our brethern of the southern Hispanic persuasion, that they build a fence or wall along the U.S.-Mexico border, and gin up the personnel to patrol it properly? And maybe start prosecuting effectively the people who are violating Mexican law?
I've been making these exact suggestions for years now. But this is the first time I've made them, to a government OUTSIDE the borders of the U.S.
Border problems are a bytch, eh?
That's Rrrrrrraaaaaaccccccciiiiiiiissssssttttttt! These undocumented merchants are just doing a job that Mexicans won't do.
Guns are very easy to get in the US, and there is a reason that most of the guns that are used in crime are purchased or traced back to states with lax control. I.E. New York to places like Virginia or Texas to Mexico, In many southern states guns are sold face to face with nothing more than the handing of money and the handing of a gun. A Mexican can buy a pistol in Kansas at a Quick trip and drive off with nothing more than that. They can buy guns that are illegal in Mexico and transport them down south for use there. The neocon ideas are to arm everyone this will make it real safe because the idea is that if a person starts shooting in a mall then everyone will have a gun to kill that guy. Well the neo cons have created myth that is rewriting history, FDR was evil and communist, McCarthy was really a good guy who wanted to rid our nation of Commies, bla bla bla. About guns what about places like Abilene, Wichita, Dodge city where it was illegal for people to have or wear guns in the city limits and this was the days of the so called wild west? Soon the neocons will have Regan as a smart intelligent president, wait they are already trying to spread that lie. All this from the party whos leaders tell us they are just hiking the old app. trail.
Bull crap........
forawhile I am not a neocon and the Fox news report is truth and even common sense.Boompa I don't watch Fox news much BTW.
Instead of dismissing this report just because Fox news reported it , which any news organization can actually report truth once in a while...
These cartels are loaded with money, the drug trade is too profitable that they will find arms of what ever they need anywhere. And like mentioned above you don't walk into a American store and buy unregistered full auto arms, rockets and grenades. Yet this administration attempted to make the everyday Joe believe so because they thought most would never bother to check the facts. Well they got caught in their attempted lie.
REAL AK's and sub machine guns can be bought for a lot less and less risk in various South and central American countries than risking buying in America. While a percentage of *traceable* guns originated from the U.S.A most guns in Mexico's cartels aren't traceable, and if they were you would find they came from Chinese, Russian, and American government arsenals.
These are organizations that have a airforce and a fleet transporting drugs to Africa and around the world, don't you think they can just as easily transport arms?
Yes, some arms probably did come from civilian sources in America, but the amount is small , and if someone did sell or run guns illegally, they are already breaking the law so banning them from legal people will have no effect.
The Obama administration, the attorney general and politicians lied about this, plain and simple. They thought they could do what the Clinton administration did but failed to realize until now, that people woke up to just believing their "statistics".
It's getting to be a well-established pattern. Whenever today's leftist extremists announce some "statistic" that supports their cause, check into it carefully. It usually turns out to be false.
The leftists have been working for a while on the story that the violence in Mexico is the U.S.'s fault, and that we must start banning guns from our own citizens in order to help Mexico. Of course, they've used every excuse under the sun to ban guns from law-abiding American citizens, and this is just the latest try. It seems to be the "reason behind the push to reinstate the failed "Assault Weapons Ban" - the one that didn't ban any assault weapons and made no difference in crime rates during the ten years it was in place.
Unsurprisingly, it's not true.
-------------------------------------------
The Myth of 90 Percent: Only a Small Fraction of Guns in Mexico Come From U.S. - Presidential Politics | Political News - FOXNews.com (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2009/04/02/myth-percent-guns-mexico-fraction-number-claimed/ - broken link)
The Myth of 90 Percent: Only a Small Fraction of Guns in Mexico Come From U.S.
While 90 percent of the guns traced to the U.S. actually originated in the United States, the percent traced to the U.S. is only about 17 percent of the total number of guns reaching Mexico.
by William La Jeunesse and Maxim Lott
FOXNews.com
Thursday, April 02, 2009
EXCLUSIVE: You've heard this shocking "fact" before -- on TV and radio, in newspapers, on the Internet and from the highest politicians in the land: 90 percent of the weapons used to commit crimes in Mexico come from the United States.
-- Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said it to reporters on a flight to Mexico City.
-- CBS newsman Bob Schieffer referred to it while interviewing President Obama.
-- California Sen. Dianne Feinstein said at a Senate hearing: "It is unacceptable to have 90 percent of the guns that are picked up in Mexico and used to shoot judges, police officers and mayors ... come from the United States."
-- William Hoover, assistant director for field operations at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, testified in the House of Representatives that "there is more than enough evidence to indicate that over 90 percent of the firearms that have either been recovered in, or interdicted in transport to Mexico, originated from various sources within the United States."
There's just one problem with the 90 percent "statistic" and it's a big one:
It's just not true.
In fact, it's not even close. By all accounts, it's probably around 17 percent.
What's true, an ATF spokeswoman told FOXNews.com, in a clarification of the statistic used by her own agency's assistant director, "is that over 90 percent of the traced firearms originate from the U.S."
But a large percentage of the guns recovered in Mexico do not get sent back to the U.S. for tracing, because it is obvious from their markings that they do not come from the U.S.
"Not every weapon seized in Mexico has a serial number on it that would make it traceable, and the U.S. effort to trace weapons really only extends to weapons that have been in the U.S. market," Matt Allen, special agent of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), told FOX News.
A Look at the Numbers
In 2007-2008, according to ATF Special Agent William Newell, Mexico submitted 11,000 guns to the ATF for tracing. Close to 6,000 were successfully traced -- and of those, 90 percent -- 5,114 to be exact, according to testimony in Congress by William Hoover -- were found to have come from the U.S.
But in those same two years, according to the Mexican government, 29,000 guns were recovered at crime scenes.
In other words, 68 percent of the guns that were recovered were never submitted for tracing. And when you weed out the roughly 6,000 guns that could not be traced from the remaining 32 percent, it means 83 percent of the guns found at crime scenes in Mexico could not be traced to the U.S.
So, if not from the U.S., where do they come from? There are a variety of sources:
-- The Black Market. Mexico is a virtual arms bazaar, with fragmentation grenades from South Korea, AK-47s from China, and shoulder-fired rocket launchers from Spain, Israel and former Soviet bloc manufacturers.
(Full text of this article can be read at the above URL)
It's getting to be a well-established pattern. Whenever today's leftist extremists announce some "statistic" that supports their cause, check into it carefully. It usually turns out to be false.
The leftists have been working for a while on the story that the violence in Mexico is the U.S.'s fault, and that we must start banning guns from our own citizens in order to help Mexico. Of course, they've used every excuse under the sun to ban guns from law-abiding American citizens, and this is just the latest try. It seems to be the "reason behind the push to reinstate the failed "Assault Weapons Ban" - the one that didn't ban any assault weapons and made no difference in crime rates during the ten years it was in place.
Unsurprisingly, it's not true.
-------------------------------------------
The Myth of 90 Percent: Only a Small Fraction of Guns in Mexico Come From U.S. - Presidential Politics | Political News - FOXNews.com (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/elections/2009/04/02/myth-percent-guns-mexico-fraction-number-claimed/ - broken link)
The Myth of 90 Percent: Only a Small Fraction of Guns in Mexico Come From U.S.
While 90 percent of the guns traced to the U.S. actually originated in the United States, the percent traced to the U.S. is only about 17 percent of the total number of guns reaching Mexico.
by William La Jeunesse and Maxim Lott
FOXNews.com
Thursday, April 02, 2009
EXCLUSIVE: You've heard this shocking "fact" before -- on TV and radio, in newspapers, on the Internet and from the highest politicians in the land: 90 percent of the weapons used to commit crimes in Mexico come from the United States.
-- Secretary of State Hillary Clinton said it to reporters on a flight to Mexico City.
-- CBS newsman Bob Schieffer referred to it while interviewing President Obama.
-- California Sen. Dianne Feinstein said at a Senate hearing: "It is unacceptable to have 90 percent of the guns that are picked up in Mexico and used to shoot judges, police officers and mayors ... come from the United States."
-- William Hoover, assistant director for field operations at the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, testified in the House of Representatives that "there is more than enough evidence to indicate that over 90 percent of the firearms that have either been recovered in, or interdicted in transport to Mexico, originated from various sources within the United States."
There's just one problem with the 90 percent "statistic" and it's a big one:
It's just not true.
In fact, it's not even close. By all accounts, it's probably around 17 percent.
What's true, an ATF spokeswoman told FOXNews.com, in a clarification of the statistic used by her own agency's assistant director, "is that over 90 percent of the traced firearms originate from the U.S."
But a large percentage of the guns recovered in Mexico do not get sent back to the U.S. for tracing, because it is obvious from their markings that they do not come from the U.S.
"Not every weapon seized in Mexico has a serial number on it that would make it traceable, and the U.S. effort to trace weapons really only extends to weapons that have been in the U.S. market," Matt Allen, special agent of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), told FOX News.
A Look at the Numbers
In 2007-2008, according to ATF Special Agent William Newell, Mexico submitted 11,000 guns to the ATF for tracing. Close to 6,000 were successfully traced -- and of those, 90 percent -- 5,114 to be exact, according to testimony in Congress by William Hoover -- were found to have come from the U.S.
But in those same two years, according to the Mexican government, 29,000 guns were recovered at crime scenes.
In other words, 68 percent of the guns that were recovered were never submitted for tracing. And when you weed out the roughly 6,000 guns that could not be traced from the remaining 32 percent, it means 83 percent of the guns found at crime scenes in Mexico could not be traced to the U.S.
So, if not from the U.S., where do they come from? There are a variety of sources:
-- The Black Market. Mexico is a virtual arms bazaar, with fragmentation grenades from South Korea, AK-47s from China, and shoulder-fired rocket launchers from Spain, Israel and former Soviet bloc manufacturers.
(Full text of this article can be read at the above URL)
Little-Acorn !!! ... You Are 100% On Target !
Only a complete idiot would believe that 90% of these guns come exclusively from the U.S.
Needless to say there are some elected representatives among us whom would dearly love to disarm law abiding American Citizens at all and any costs !
Indeed there appears to be an unprecedented & most malicious DINO agenda afoot for the singular purpose of disarming U.S. citizens.
My friends we must never, ever allow this grand folly to occur !
The "Right To Bear Arms" is one of the greatest "Crime Prevention" factors in the annuals of American History !
The armed law abiding American Citizen is by far the greatest deterrent to crime and violence within the American Nation !
It is only the complete foolishness of the inept ..... "Looney Bin" Left whom would even consider such an idiotic scheme as this !
The quotes are accurate. FOX and the OP are not paying attention to what their own quotes are saying.
Point: "While 90 percent of the guns traced to the U.S. actually originated in the United States, the percent traced to the U.S. is only about 17 percent of the total number of guns reaching Mexico." How does FOX know where the other 83% come from?
"In 2007-2008, according to ATF Special Agent William Newell, Mexico submitted 11,000 guns to the ATF for tracing. Close to 6,000 were successfully traced -- and of those, 90 percent -- 5,114 to be exact, according to testimony in Congress by William Hoover -- were found to have come from the U.S."
"But in those same two years, according to the Mexican government, 29,000 guns were recovered at crime scenes." So, that means, 17,000 were NOT submitted to the ATF!
DUH!!!!!!
The OP's grasp of the written word needs a lot of work. Nothing has been misstated from the quotes.
Absolute Fox Propaganda. In the Cananea gunfight killing 20, five of who were Police officers every gun taken was traced back to the US. So believe what you want. They are tracing them, so when that gun you sold with no records is used to kill a Policeman, there may be a knock on your door
No one is disputing that guns are coming from the US. It's just the numbers that we are disputing. Yes, 90% of the guns that were traced came from the US. But in reality, that only accounts for 17% of the guns confiscated. The rest were untraceable. There is no need to trace a full auto AK47 with Chinese writing on it.
I've asked this in similar threads and still haven't found an answer. Of those guns traced to the US, how many were legally sold to Mexico? If this number ever was released it would show just how rampant corruption is in the police and military. They won't release it. If we release the number it would just embarrass them.
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