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No one is disputing that guns are coming from the US. It's just the numbers that we are disputing. Yes, 90% of the guns that were traced came from the US. But in reality, that only accounts for 17% of the guns confiscated. The rest were untraceable. There is no need to trace a full auto AK47 with Chinese writing on it.
I've asked this in similar threads and still haven't found an answer. Of those guns traced to the US, how many were legally sold to Mexico? If this number ever was released it would show just how rampant corruption is in the police and military. They won't release it. If we release the number it would just embarrass them.
I think it was the New York Times that did a piece on this. Drug dealers will get somebody to buy guns then take them back to Mexico. Several people throughout the southwest have gone to prison over it.
I think it was the New York Times that did a piece on this. Drug dealers will get somebody to buy guns then take them back to Mexico. Several people throughout the southwest have gone to prison over it.
I'm aware of that. These straw buyers need to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. BUT that still doesn't explain items like full auto M-16's. You can't walk into any gun store and walk out with one like you can a hunting rifle. Only certain dealers are allowed to sell Class III weapons. Buyers must submit to an extensive background check which takes about 3 months. Finally, the weapons are a little pricey. The last time I looked, full auto M-16 was around $10,000. For that price, you could get a crate of Chinese AK-47's.
I just want to know how corrupt the military and police are. Finding the number of weapons sold to them and then used by criminals would be a great start.
I'm aware of that. These straw buyers need to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. BUT that still doesn't explain items like full auto M-16's. You can't walk into any gun store and walk out with one like you can a hunting rifle. Only certain dealers are allowed to sell Class III weapons. Buyers must submit to an extensive background check which takes about 3 months. Finally, the weapons are a little pricey. The last time I looked, full auto M-16 was around $10,000. For that price, you could get a crate of Chinese AK-47's.
I just want to know how corrupt the military and police are. Finding the number of weapons sold to them and then used by criminals would be a great start.
Tracing a submarine should be easy too. And rocket launchers..isn't that only military ?
I'm aware of that. These straw buyers need to be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. BUT that still doesn't explain items like full auto M-16's. You can't walk into any gun store and walk out with one like you can a hunting rifle. Only certain dealers are allowed to sell Class III weapons. Buyers must submit to an extensive background check which takes about 3 months. Finally, the weapons are a little pricey. The last time I looked, full auto M-16 was around $10,000. For that price, you could get a crate of Chinese AK-47's.
I just want to know how corrupt the military and police are. Finding the number of weapons sold to them and then used by criminals would be a great start.
Gun dealers have gone to prison from the illicit sale of automatic weapons. There's nothing in the OP about automatic weapons anyway.
You have to remember, the $10K price includes the hefty taxes. The actual price is about $2K or so.
Haven't checked in a while but the LA Times was running a series of stories on the Mexican drug problems.
That's exactly the point..that article is leaving out many more details about the weapons leaving the reader to think Mexico is full of US guns.
If the Fox author and editors were paying attention . . . there's nothing in the information presented that's misleading. THEY presented the information as something diabolical. Something from the World Net Daily playbook.
The quotes are accurate. FOX and the OP are not paying attention to what their own quotes are saying.
Point: "While 90 percent of the guns traced to the U.S. actually originated in the United States, the percent traced to the U.S. is only about 17 percent of the total number of guns reaching Mexico." How does FOX know where the other 83% come from?
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Yeah, but to comprehend anything logical and catch a typical Faux News distortion (deliberate or not), the ability to think and use the brain is needed.
Yeah, but to comprehend anything logical and catch a typical Faux News distortion (deliberate or not), the ability to think and use the brain is needed.
but obviously not necessarily required for the average FAUX viewer!
This article is extremely inaccurate and a straight up lie. The 5,114 figure is completely inaccurate. Over FY 2007 and 2008, 11,055 guns were actually submitted for tracing. 10,347 of these guns were traced to the US, making the actual number 93% of all guns submitted for tracing. 36% of the total recovered (29,000) came from the US.
Quote:
The 5,114 figure is simply wrong. What Newell said quite clearly is that the number of guns submitted to ATF in those two years was 11,055: "3,312 in FY 2007 [and] 7,743 in FY 2008." Newell also testified, as other ATF officials have done, that 90 percent of the guns traced were determined to have come from the U.S. So based on Newell's testimony, the Fox reporters should have used a figure of 9,950 guns from U.S. sources. That figures out to just over 34 percent of guns recovered, assuming that the 29,000 figure supplied by Mexico's attorney general is correct.
Even that number is too low. At our request, an ATF spokesman gave us more detailed figures for how many guns had been submitted and traced during those two years. Of the guns seized in Mexico and given to ATF for tracing, the agency actually found 95 percent came from U.S. sources in fiscal 2007 and 93 percent in fiscal 2008. That comes to a total of 10,347 guns from U.S. sources for those two years, or 36 percent of what Mexican authorities say they recovered.
Furthmore, anyone who knows basic math should see the inaccuracies here. According to this article, out of 29,000 guns, only 11,000 were submitted for tracing. According to this inaccurate article 5,114 of these guns were traced to the US. If this were actually correct, out all the guns submitted, roughly 46% were traced to the United States. Not 17% and not 90%. However, it still does not account for the other 5,000 that were not traced (according to this inaccurate article).
What they did to get the 17% number was round the 5,114 to 5,000 which is closer to 17% of 29,000. If they used the actual number 5,114, it would be closer to 18%. However, this number is still completely inaccurate when only 11,000 guns were submitted for tracing and the other 18,000 weren't even submitted and there was no attempt to trace them. Yet they used the extra 18,000 to prove their point (which is a lie). Not only were the numbers they used totally wrong, their math was off as well and they counted the other 18,000 guns where they felt that it was beneficial in proving their point. I can't believe anyone actually thinks FOX is a credible source.
This article is extremely inaccurate and a straight up lie. The 5,114 figure is completely inaccurate. Over FY 2007 and 2008, 11,055 guns were actually submitted for tracing. 10,347 of these guns were traced to the US, making the actual number 93% of all guns submitted for tracing. 36% of the total recovered (29,000) came from the US.
Furthmore, anyone who knows basic math should see the inaccuracies here. According to this article, out of 29,000 guns, only 11,000 were submitted for tracing. According to this inaccurate article 5,114 of these guns were traced to the US. If this were actually correct, out all the guns submitted, roughly 46% were traced to the United States. Not 17% and not 90%. However, it still does not account for the other 5,000 that were not traced (according to this inaccurate article).
What they did to get the 17% number was round the 5,114 to 5,000 which is closer to 17% of 29,000. If they used the actual number 5,114, it would be closer to 18%. However, this number is still completely inaccurate when only 11,000 guns were submitted for tracing and the other 18,000 weren't even submitted and there was no attempt to trace them. Yet they used the extra 18,000 to prove their point (which is a lie). Not only were the numbers they used totally wrong, their math was off as well and they counted the other 18,000 guns where they felt that it was beneficial in proving their point. I can't believe anyone actually thinks FOX is a credible source.
They are the number 1 source for America's news, that's a fact!
More scary than any terrorist threat I can think of.
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