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Old 04-27-2009, 07:41 PM
 
Location: Raleigh, NC
9,059 posts, read 12,976,623 times
Reputation: 1401

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MovingForward View Post
So the people in Mexico who have died, actually died from a vaccine and not from the flu itself?
What does Mexico have to do with the US?

The government was wrong last time. They could've easily be wrong again (the odds favor it)
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Old 04-28-2009, 05:34 AM
 
19,198 posts, read 31,487,419 times
Reputation: 4013
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibginnie View Post
So the answer is actually, yes it is the same bill that the members of congress did not read, correct? Pretty clever? I don't think so. No matter how well I have screened my aids they are still humans with their own thoughts and feelings on issues. One could give a summary that would differ from another. Sorry, if I had the nation's welfare in my hands I would think that I would read, for myself, what would effect them.
Well, you wouldn't. You'd do just what everyone else does. You would rarely read a bill. That's what staffers are for. You would rarely write a bill. That's what staffers and lobbyists are for. You would rarely even vote on a bill. Most bills are non-controversial and are simply passed by unanimous consent. No vote by anybody requested or required. You've unfortunately got a rather limited and certainly simplistic view of what work in Congress actually entails. You would have a great deal to learn if you were suddenly dropped into that environment.
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Old 04-28-2009, 05:46 AM
 
Location: OUTTA SIGHT!
3,018 posts, read 3,569,249 times
Reputation: 1899
Quote:
Originally Posted by MotleyCrew View Post
On a side note: Why are you not as concerned or outraged that the Obama administration will not close the border down? This to me would be one way to contain this if it were a real crisis.
I'm not sure that 'closing the border' (as if that were really possible) and economically starving the already chaotic and volatile country to our south would be such a good idea...it'd be like slamming the lid on an already boiling pot.

The long term answer is to get Mexico to a level of health and stability as to not be a liability to us.

Last edited by brubaker; 04-28-2009 at 05:55 AM..
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Old 04-28-2009, 05:46 AM
 
Location: San Diego, CA
4,897 posts, read 8,321,875 times
Reputation: 1911
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak View Post
I assume you mean the "shovel ready" (as in shoveling bs) projects providing construction jobs. Fine, let's work with this theory for a moment.

Construction workers will be employed using bulldozers, etc. for 6-12 months creating X hospital. Well, why not keep them employed longer and have them use shovels instead? Better yet, why not teaspoons to dig the dirt? This will also benefit the flatware companies since these teaspoons will likely bend and break often.

Keynesian witchdoctor voodoo economics at work. Or I should say "making work".
You have a very simplistic mind. When you build a project like a hospital you have to design the building which means you have to employ architects and structural engineers, you have to hire people to build the building, they will need equipment and machinery to build the building and someone in a factory makes those backhoes & cranes so the people in those factories stay working as do the guys at the steel mill, the concrete factory, the people who manufacture the electric wiring, the factory which makes the plumbing pipes, the miners who mine the raw materials for all of the above, the retailers they buy these goods for, the truckers and railroad men who transport these goods, the people at the factories which make the medical equipment and medications...

The list just goes on and on tricking into the economy. Yes, this generates a lot of new economic activity which helps a hell of a lot of companies create jobs and or sustain existing jobs. After it's done you'll still see lots of doctors, nurses, clerks, accountants, and other people working at this hospital plus the people who live in the two get the utility of having a state of the art medical center which they can use. This is very real economic stimulus even if you're to daft to understand it.

BTW everyone knows that "voodoo economics" is the Republican trickle down economics where supposedly you cut taxes and magically the government some how gets more taxes. The problem is that has never happened. Even Laugher himself, of Laugher curve fame, admits that cutting taxes would only increase revenue if you were above the theoretical laugher maximum. Cutting taxes below the laugher maximum, according to even laugher himself, only results in decreased tax revenue. To bad the laugher maximum is up around 80% or so while all of our tax rates are down in the 30's. We could double tax rates and still be below the laugher maximum.
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Old 04-28-2009, 05:52 AM
 
Location: Chicago
38,707 posts, read 103,233,018 times
Reputation: 29983
"Laugher?"

Your post is a laugher.
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Old 04-28-2009, 05:58 AM
 
Location: OUTTA SIGHT!
3,018 posts, read 3,569,249 times
Reputation: 1899
Drover, you should be a late night comedy show host and stay out of serious discussions.

Laffer curve - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 04-28-2009, 06:20 AM
 
12,867 posts, read 14,921,177 times
Reputation: 4459
Quote:
Originally Posted by brubaker View Post
I'm not sure that 'closing the border' (as if that were really possible) and economically starving the already chaotic and volatile country to our south would be such a good idea...it'd be like slamming the lid on an already boiling pot.

The long term answer is to get Mexico to a level of health and stability as to not be a liability to us.
the united states is not in a financial position to provide mexico with financial help since we are using "borrowed" money ourselves. mexico needs to get its own house in order while they still have oil revenue, which they are not going to have that much longer.
as far as the pandemic money, it would represent even more waste in the stimulus bill, which again is borrowed money with interest due. it seems that there is some effort to generate hysteria with this swine flu virus, yet americans have only become mildly ill from it. this is a controllable virus and director Schuchat said that the virus was resistant to amantadine and rimantadine, but susceptible to oseltamivir(Tamiflu) and zanamivir (Relenza). WHY THROW 900 MILLION DOLLARS THAT WE DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE AT A PROBLEM THAT WE DON'T ACTUALLY HAVE? our country is already very good at immunizing its citizens to protect them from viruses. if our political leaders were truly concerned about this threat from mexico they would be better off shutting the border down and that way they would solve the flu problem, the illegal immigration problem, the drug smuggling problem, the kidnapping of americans at the border problem, and the gun smuggling problem. of course, that would not be the politically expedient solution.......
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Old 04-28-2009, 06:25 AM
 
12,867 posts, read 14,921,177 times
Reputation: 4459
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oerdin View Post
You have a very simplistic mind. When you build a project like a hospital you have to design the building which means you have to employ architects and structural engineers, you have to hire people to build the building, they will need equipment and machinery to build the building and someone in a factory makes those backhoes & cranes so the people in those factories stay working as do the guys at the steel mill, the concrete factory, the people who manufacture the electric wiring, the factory which makes the plumbing pipes, the miners who mine the raw materials for all of the above, the retailers they buy these goods for, the truckers and railroad men who transport these goods, the people at the factories which make the medical equipment and medications...

The list just goes on and on tricking into the economy. Yes, this generates a lot of new economic activity which helps a hell of a lot of companies create jobs and or sustain existing jobs. After it's done you'll still see lots of doctors, nurses, clerks, accountants, and other people working at this hospital plus the people who live in the two get the utility of having a state of the art medical center which they can use. This is very real economic stimulus even if you're to daft to understand it.

BTW everyone knows that "voodoo economics" is the Republican trickle down economics where supposedly you cut taxes and magically the government some how gets more taxes. The problem is that has never happened. Even Laugher himself, of Laugher curve fame, admits that cutting taxes would only increase revenue if you were above the theoretical laugher maximum. Cutting taxes below the laugher maximum, according to even laugher himself, only results in decreased tax revenue. To bad the laugher maximum is up around 80% or so while all of our tax rates are down in the 30's. We could double tax rates and still be below the laugher maximum.
government itself is a revenue burner not a revenue generator, so how does the democratic solution of growing our government save our country financially and help with the job situation? trying to put everybody on the government payroll is a dead end solution.
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Old 04-28-2009, 06:29 AM
 
21,026 posts, read 22,160,558 times
Reputation: 5941
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViewFromThePeak View Post
I assume you mean the "shovel ready" (as in shoveling bs) projects providing construction jobs. Fine, let's work with this theory for a moment.

Construction workers will be employed using bulldozers, etc. for 6-12 months creating X hospital. Well, why not keep them employed longer and have them use shovels instead? Better yet, why not teaspoons to dig the dirt? This will also benefit the flatware companies since these teaspoons will likely bend and break often.

Keynesian witchdoctor voodoo economics at work. Or I should say "making work".
Can't let this one go...it's the epitome of repub short-sightedness.

A hospital will be built.
The project will need engineers, architects, city planners, landscapers, lawyers, construction companies, sub-contractors, interior decorators, plumbers, electricians...etc.
Medical supply companies who use employees to make and sell their products, nurses, doctors, counselors, physician aide, X-ray technicians, housekeeping staff, nutritionists, cooks, administrators and their staffs, plumbers, electricians, facility engineers...etc. (those jobs, DUH, don't end when construction is over)

These jobs create more jobs...they need to eat...they go to the neighborhood restaurants, buy clothes, gas, groceries, CARS because they have MONEY FROM THOSE JOBS.

The restaurant owners then make more money, the car dealer makes more money, the people working in the stores make more money ...THEY in turn may spend their money to build a new home which uses construction workers, architects, lumber companies....which in turn use restaurants, buy gas , groceries....





NOW N O W do you GET IT!

Last edited by Who?Me?!; 04-28-2009 at 07:45 AM..
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Old 04-28-2009, 07:13 AM
 
47,525 posts, read 69,728,990 times
Reputation: 22474
Quote:
Originally Posted by brubaker View Post
I'm sure those that are facing hardships and possibly the deaths of loved ones will be happy to hear that the GOP were so discerning in their definition of economic stimulus.

I imagine they aren't going to be too pleased as their loved ones die that Obama's administration did nothing at all to limit this coming into the country.

One thing this administration doesn't believe and that's that an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

Nothing like allowing ill people from Mexico coming here, right now we still have a very small handful of cases but there's been no effort at all to slow the spread of this. It's all about let people come back and forth from the areas of the epidemic, let them sneeze and cough all over the USA and MAYBE THEN we'll worry about the dying Americans.
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