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I voted with some trepidation for 'legal in only a few circumstances'.
That really doesn't express my viewpoint, though.
As long as there will be unplanned pregnancies there will be abortions - legal or not. Understanding this I would like to see a lot more thorough sex ed for both boys and girls plus make birth control very accessible and cheap and I do include plan B in the description of birth control.
I wish that abortion would be rare and early. I wish that adoption was a more socially excepted option in our country. I wish that abortion in later pregnancy was outlawed except in the most extreme cases.
The point is that Roe v. Wade was not a unanimous decision.
No, just 7-2, as it was also re Doe v Bolton.
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Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok
Different judges/justices interpret the Constitution differently. Roe v. Wade could easily be overturned in the future with the right set of appointees.
Sure if you packed the Court with with fundie and ultra-conservative judicial activists with no respect at all for stare decisis or common sense, the decision could be overturned.
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Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok
Pro-lifers have an absolute right to vote for Presidents who will appoint pro-life SC justices.
And the Senate has an absolute right and duty to impeach them should they use their position to establish personal religious beliefs.
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Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok
And, like it or not as I said earlier, you feel that abortion should be legal at any time for any reason, while the same judges and justices who have protected your "right" to an abortion generally disagree.
Where have they said they disagree? They have said only that they find the state's claim to a legitimate interest that entitles them to limited abridgement of individual rights not to be precluded.
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Originally Posted by afoigrokerkok
The statistical probability of a child being murdered by a parent is still well under 0.2%. Relatively unlikely? I would say so, and most would agree.
The chance of a healthy fetus being aborted on Day-272 of a normal pregnancy is 0.0%. By comparison, 0.2% is a veritable enormity.
And so, the woman would have to carry around her rapist's baby for 9 months. Who would be responsible for the expenses involved? The rapist? I guess if the rapist has no money, then the state would be responsible for the costs involved, right?
I think -- because in these cases, adoption is the best approach, that the adoptive couple pay the expenses. There are many good people who very much want a baby and would be glad to pay the medical costs of having a baby.
Keep in mind, the baby that's being carried around is still the mother's baby. The baby belongs to the rapist no more than another baby belongs to a sperm donor but the rapist should be castrated so it will be the last time for him.
I would definitely not want a daughter suffering from being raped to also have to deal with the death of her baby. Maybe she would decide to keep her baby but the choice of adoption is a positive one, some happiness and joy can come out of the ordeal. Adoption isn't a "final solution" as there are many mothers that reunite with their children after 18 or so years. There are also the open adoptions where the birth mother can select the adoptive couple and even maintain some contact with her child, whatever is agreed upon.
If the baby is going to die anyhow, you really don't need to kill it.
If you are at all interested in the health and/or well-being of the mother, you do. The matter is in any case best left to the woman and the medical professionals with knowledge of the actual circumstances to decide. You have nothing material to contribute to that decision at all.
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Originally Posted by malamute
We all know that serious abnormalities are the reason for an extremely small number of abortions.
We don't ALL know even the most obvious things, as posts in this very forum continue to prove every single day. Serious abnormalities often cannot be detected or do not develop until late in term. For this reason, such abnormalities underly higher and higher percentages of abortions the later in term you go. Past a certain point, they account for all of them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by malamute
More often babies are killed for slight defects or simply because they're "inconvenient".
Pregnancies are terminated for all sorts of reasons. Birth control in general is practiced for all sorts of reasons. Women have the right to guide their own reproductive histories. At their indivdiual discretion. They need not at all be dictated to by the wishes of any imaginary sky-God, nor by those of any greedy fetus seeking to barge in where it was never wanted and does not belong to begin with.
Last edited by saganista; 05-16-2009 at 03:13 PM..
Pregnancies are terminated for all sorts of reasons. Birth control in general is practiced for all sorts of reasons. Women have the right to guide their own reproductive histories. At theri discretion. They need not at all be dictated to by the wishes of any imaginary sky-God, nor by those of any greedy fetus seeking to barge in where it was never wanted and does not belong.
You make everything about religion while failing to realize that there are many non-religious people who are pro-life.
Then you state a "greedy fetus" wishes to "barge in where it was never wanted and does not belong." Except in the case of rape, the woman did in fact choose to engage in an action knowing that a fetus could result. She (and her BF/husband/one-night-stand partner, etc.) created it; it didn't barge in.
Contraceptive use, including Plan B, should be strongly encouraged, as should sterilization for those who want it. Adoption should also be encouraged. But, like it or not, the fetus didn't simply "barge in" and it's not greedy...IT JUST WANTS TO LIVE!
Last edited by afoigrokerkok; 05-16-2009 at 03:21 PM..
Actually that is compassionate.
Having been in that situation and joining a group of women in similiar circumstances I can tell you that those that went through with the pregnancy until the death of the fetus, then delivering the deceased baby were able to process the grief better then those that chose to abort, especially those that chose to abort in later pregnancy.
It is very similiar to when drs thought it best to tell women who experienced stillbirth to go home and forget it ever happened - to put it out of their mind. That mindset really caused a lot more heartache then acknowledging the loss in the first place.
It was my experience (and I am not alone in this) that while incredibly heartbreaking it was also in its own way beautiful. I still wouldn't wish it on anyone, but it is a mistake to believe that abortion is a cure all for grief.
I am sorry you had to go through that. I think that would be a very hard thing. I posted that in cases like this it should be the womans choice. malmute seemed to suggest that she should carry it period, as it was only a couple of months. again for me it is about choice
I am sorry you had to go through that. I think that would be a very hard thing. I posted that in cases like this it should be the womans choice. malmute seemed to suggest that she should carry it period, as it was only a couple of months. again for me it is about choice
I wish that death of all manners weren't such taboo topics in our country.
I understand what you are saying, and even though I believe that to face the death is better emotionally for the woman based on what I experienced personally and through the observation of other women in my support group I would not presume to take that choice away entirely. It is ultimately between a woman and her doctor. I only wish that there would be actual studies down to document what is better for the long term mental health of the mother in these kinds of instances. Believe me, this is not a decision to later regret.
If you are at all interested in the health and/or well-being of the mother, you do. The matter is in any case best left to the woman and the medical professionals with knowledge of the actual circumstances to decide. You have nothing material to contribute to that decision at all.
We don't ALL know even the most obvious things, as posts in this very forum continue to prove every single day. Serious abnormalities often cannot be detected or do not develop until late in term. For this reason, such abnormalities underly higher and higher percentages of abortions the later in term you go. Past a certain point, they account for all of them.
Pregnancies are terminated for all sorts of reasons. Birth control in general is practiced for all sorts of reasons. Women have the right to guide their own reproductive histories. At their indivdiual discretion. They need not at all be dictated to by the wishes of any imaginary sky-God, nor by those of any greedy fetus seeking to barge in where it was never wanted and does not belong to begin with.
The picture of the newborn is quite appropriate --- but would you consider the same infant a baby only hours prior to when that picture was taken - when that same baby was still encased in the gestational sac?
A zygote is not an embryo which is not a fetus which at a certain point becomes a baby. That point is considered at viability -- an age that has flucuated greatly since Roe V Wade.
I don't believe many people are comfortable outlawing abortion in the first trimester --- but I do believe most people are at best uneasy if not completely repelled by abortion past viability, whether the actual fetus in question is viable or not.
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