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the proper thing to do with lawn equipment is to drain the tank after each use, and refill it when you plan to use the equipment again, especially if it is going to sit for the winter. but too many people get lazy in that respect, and there in lies the problem there.
Draining the tank everytime you mow the lawn is not normal or necessary with OB gasoline. Simply running a briggs and Stratton on ethanol will prematurely damage it even if drained after every use.
the proper thing to do with lawn equipment is to drain the tank after each use, and refill it when you plan to use the equipment again, especially if it is going to sit for the winter. but too many people get lazy in that respect, and there in lies the problem there.
You must work for of the producers of that crap, the way you defend it. Like I said, I will take personal experience as a Toyota mechanic and a Toyota engineer's opinion over your opinion.
You guys are going to get a lot of the Mid west pissed about this. The GOP may have to do their corn pledge again.
Ethanol blends produce less power per gallon. So more fuel is needed per mile. This produces more pollution and costs drivers more. That higher price they pay, is a big part of the profits the corn producers rake in. They have developed an attitude of entitlement and will howl in protest, if they have to go back to doing an honest amount of work for their incomes. The Republican legislators from corn states will not want to give up the source of support, that happy, overpaid corn producers continue to give them.
the proper thing to do with lawn equipment is to drain the tank after each use, and refill it when you plan to use the equipment again, especially if it is going to sit for the winter. but too many people get lazy in that respect, and there in lies the problem there.
You are introducing a problem needlessly, whether issue can be addressed or not is pointless argument when all these problems can be addressed by simply getting rid of what is a very expensive government mandated boondoggle. My strategy in the past was to fill the tank completely, I won't do that with ethanol laced gas.
That's pure mythology. Ethanol is cheaper to make than gasoline, is net energy positive, and uses 3.5 gallons of water per gallon (about the same as gasoline). Ethanol does not drive up the cost of food, as it uses non-edible corn; something we have more of than we know what to do with. It does drive down MPG... but it also costs less.
100% gasoline has 113,000 btu per gallon
100% ethanol has 76,000 btu per gallon
100% diesel fuel has 130,000 btu per gallon
The ethanol number is very stable as it is based on a distillation process.
The gasoline number varies a bit as they manipulate the Reid vapor pressure to change from winter mix to summer mix--and when adding anti knock chemicals--the btu is lowered.
The diesel and gasoline numbers go up and down, very slightly, depending on crude stocks.
Bottom line
--you will always get better mileage with pure gasoline, over ethanol and ethanol mixes--I'll let you do the ratio arithmetic
--Ethanol is a very strong solvent--in an older vehicle it will loosen various varnish and deposits and these may lodge, troublesomely, in various small carburetor orifices. In a stored engine, such as a lawnmower, chainsaw, tractor, snowblower, outboard motor--the ethanol is more likely to cause problems with line and fuel metering component corrosion and seal deterioration. (there is less difficulty with later models, as both seals and lines are made with ethanol in mind) Long term storage with pure gasoline is also problemmatical--it's a good idea to use a product such as Sta-Bil.
--ethanol mixes will definitely help to burn off deposits on the piston tops and combustion chambers. If there has been an accumulation of carbon deposits on the back side of your intake valves--longer term use of ethanol mix will remove this--and that's probably the extent of any power improvement.
I drove it in my grand am for 15 years, 185,000 miles, no problem. It's not going anywhere so no point in bumping multiple threads about it.
That's pure mythology. Ethanol is cheaper to make than gasoline,
Here is some quick figures I ran:
About 76K BTU per gallon and we'll half that for processing so net output is about 38K per gallon. Roughly speaking you have about 6 million BTU's per ton of corn. *This may be less but it's certainly not more.
You can burn that corn to heat a home, 16.5 million BTU's per ton and adjusted for efficiency about 13 to 13.5.
Like I said these are quick calculations, we are assuming same energy costs for transportation etc. Anyway you slice the raw product is going to come out on top energy wise and certainly cost wise.
Call me crazy but if you are going to burn it for fuel doesn't it make sense to just burn it? If we needed it for liquid fuel there may be a point to this but we don't.
Quote:
Ethanol does not drive up the cost of food, as it uses non-edible corn; something we have more of than we know what to do with.
It does when the farmer is growing it instead of food people can eat.
Quote:
It does drive down MPG... but it also costs less.
The only numbers I can find on ethanol are about $29 per gallon, what does it cost if I was buying it in bulk like gasoline?
According to a friend from Guatemala, corn prices south of the border escalated in price in response to making ethanol. And they eat a lot of corn products.
WRONG. this statement tells me you dont know crap about alcohol as a fuel source.
so let me give you an education;
1: the reason gasoline is a better fuel is because it packs in more BTU potential than alcohol does, that means gasoline burns HOTTER than alcohol does.
2: your statement also tells me that you do not know how to troubleshoot WHY the valves in engines running alcohol are burning.
so lets start with number one. as i noted alcohol packs less BTU potential per unit than gasoline does, which is why you have to run more alcohol to get a proper air/fuel mixture than you do with gasoline. with gasoline 14.7:1 is the proper a/f mixture, with ethanol that drops to closer to 10:1 and with methanol it goes even lower to around 7:1. so less energy potential means lower fuel economy, and cooler combustion temperatures.
in fact the cooler combustion temperatures is the reason the myth that alcohol doesnt pollute like gasoline does continues to persist.
as for number two, if you are burning valves when running alcohol, there are at least two reasons for that;
1: there is no lubricant in the fuel like there is with gasoline, so the valves tend to stick on their seats frim time to time, and this sticking issue means than when the valve opens again, it tears the seat and the valve a bit, and over time it creates a condition where combustion gasses leak out around the seats and eventually burn the valves and the seats.
2: an excessively lean a/f mixture can, over time, cause valves to burn as well, which means its not the fuel but the tune that is causing the problem. you cannot replace gasoline with alcohol and not change the tune, your engine would be running too lean, and that is a problem, even with gasoline. and if you truly were a certified mechanic, you would know this.
3: there is also the question of a slightly bent valve stem allowing a valve to hang open slightly and allow combustion gasses to pass by the valve again causing burning of the valves. ever go to the drag strip and watch the top fuel cars? ever see one of them pop a blower? what happens is that an intake valve hung open for just a fraction of a second at the wrong time, and the backfire ignited the fuel in the intake and popped the blower. back before the safety straps were required to hold the blower on the engine, those things would go 200ft in the air. again not a problem with the fuel but rather a problem with the valve having enough friction in the guide to hang open slightly at the wrong time.
once again you have bought into the opposition bull crap. perhaps instead you should study up on the fuel itself and fidn out more about it before buying into the bull crap.
Valves aren't lubricated by fuel... in a real engine, oil is pumped up through the lifters, through the pushrods, sprays the stem of the valve. In throw away over head cam deals, the oil is pumped up and dribbles about the cam, HLAS, or in a real junker, the bucket tappets.
Valve seats on the other hand are now pressed into the heads. Instead of tossing a head due to bad seats. It's now much cheaper to punch the seat out. Sticking valves? Haven't seen that happen with modern direct injected engines. Excess carbon build up on seats because the valves aren't "washed" from a toilet (carburetor) or from TBI/MPI, yes. That's common on eco junks. Especially boomer owned ecoboosts that idle alot.
To alleviate that problem, crank case vent catch can and don't idle it. Run it like you stole it.
Harley twin cams have the same problem. Crankcase vent causes carbonization of the valves and seats. I reroute it from the intake on my 103 Wideglide.
Something about sucking oil into the intake just doesn't make a lick of sense to me...
Whether it's a circle track stock car, or an old plow truck or mud truck or hot rod. Valve cover breathers
Valves sticking in the seat? Nope. It's from carbon. If a valve sticks it's due to a lack of lubrication and the valve sticking in the guide. What I've seen thus far, excess carbon build up.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo302
No, myth, it is a harsher fuel. Ive personally seen and repaired the damage may many times.
Ethanol eats away at several of the materials used in fuel systems as well as limiting the ability of lubrication to do its job well, even in ethanol prepped vehicles.
LOL on a carbureted small block yeah... ethanol deteriorates brass needles and jets deteriorates rubber fuel lines and diaphragm in the pump which is driven by the big lobe on the camshaft...
Modern vehicles this isn't a problem anymore. Especially if they're flex fuel to start with
Ethanol blends produce less power per gallon. So more fuel is needed per mile. This produces more pollution and costs drivers more. That higher price they pay, is a big part of the profits the corn producers rake in. They have developed an attitude of entitlement and will howl in protest, if they have to go back to doing an honest amount of work for their incomes. The Republican legislators from corn states will not want to give up the source of support, that happy, overpaid corn producers continue to give them.
LOL wrong.
You ever put a 5 gas analyzer up a tail pipe on a gas vs ethanol?
I have.
Hydrocarbons about non existent in ethanol powered vehicle.
Oxides of nitrogen lower in ethanol.
C02 is lower.
Carbon is monoxide lower too.
Guess what's higher? 02... Oxygen.
Saw it in a training lab for engine performance class.
Ever tear a head off of a vehicle that ran chit 87 octane? I have.
Ever tear a head off of a vehicle that ran on 93 octane? I have.
Ever tear a head off of a city/municipality vehicle that ran on CNG or Propane? I have.
Ever tear a head off of a vehicle that ran on E85 exclusively? I have.
Ever tear a head off of a diesel? I have.
Ever tear a head off of a methanol powered sprint car engine? I have.
Cleanest pistons and combustion chambers=CNG or Propane, CNG is the cleanest. Light brown discoloration with propane. Followed by greyish brown from E85. Same with methanol. Followed by black 93 with no build up, followed by a diesel with some gunk on the piston and head, followed by cheap chit 87 LOL
Who's developed an attitude of entitlement and howls in protest again?
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Who's developed an attitude of entitlement and howls in protest again?
