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Old 07-18-2009, 07:26 PM
 
6,573 posts, read 6,740,252 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dejuan2 View Post
Lots of views, but not very many replies. I guess this type of AA is acceptable in the eyes of the majority.
It's not that people in general want it.....It's the universities' that want it because they get millions of dollars from these families in donations.
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Old 07-18-2009, 08:33 PM
 
Location: Upstate NY for now. Hanover, New Hampshire come the fall.
99 posts, read 153,323 times
Reputation: 64
I'm going to give this one a shot.

There is a value in being white, but its far less obvious and simplistic than many make it out to be. The value is in the perception, the culture, and the social stigmas attached to people based on their race.

Put quite simply, there is a "norm" for blacks, an expected range of behavior that they're supposed to conform to. High intelligence is not expected. Good grades aren't expected. Proper english is not expected. Ebonics is expected. Ganster rap is expected. Sexual promiscuity is expected. Criminality is expected. Athletic ability is expected.

In others words, blacks are not usually expected to be or viewed as upstanding, law-abiding citizens with solid academic track records and scholastic ability. People expect to see the opposite, and when you don't conform, there is a price to pay. Then you are "acting white", and when you become the "oreo" nobody favors you-not whites and not blacks.

Why does this matter? Because these stigmas play a huge role in the earlier stages of life, particularly during one's teenage years. That, of course, is when much of the direction for your adult life is shaped.
Harvard researchers did a study on this phenomenon.

The Harvard Crimson :: News :: Study Explores ‘Acting White’
Hoover Institution - Education Next - “Acting White” (http://www.hoover.org/publications/ednext/3212736.html - broken link)



Basically the study's conclusion was simple: The "whiter" you act as a black person, the fewer friends you have.
It is a phenomenon that these researchers have observed, that thousands of blacks have observed, and that I myself have lived. "Whiteness"(proper english, good grades, normal clothes) is akin to a social kiss of death for young blacks. If you can't at least pretend to conform, then you're in for a long ride to adulthood.

Whites do not have this stigmatism. Society is never shocked when a white kid manages a 4.0 GPA. Nobody is going to mock him for "acting white". No other whites are going to disparagingly call him an "oreo"(or a reverse oreo, if you will) and taunt him. No girls that he tries to go out with are going to say he's "weird". He will not be an anomaly. When he walks into a room to accept an academic reward, he won't receive quizzical looks from the donors because they will almost expect him to look as he does. He can always just be himself, and never be made to feel uncomfortable. He conforms perfectly to society's expectations, and will face none of its wrath.

Make that kid black, however, and you have a different story. Blacks will call him an oreo, and so will whites. They will all mock him for being weird. He will often get odd looks when he opens his mouth around people who look like him(and those who don't). He will ALWAYS be an anomaly, and oreo, a weirdo.

Most black kids don't want to deal with all that, so they'll take the easy way out-they'll conform. They won't bother bucking the expectations heaped on them by fellow blacks and the rest of society, and they'll reap the benefits. Most of them will gain a lot of social gratification because of this-athletic awards, lots of girls, etc, etc. But in many cases, by adhering to the stereotypes and refusing to be "oreos", they will fail to reach the extent of their academic capability. This is a problem since, as a we all know, it is your level of academic achievement that really matters in life.

The athletes, rappers, and dancers of this world don't have the real power. The producers, politicians, general managers, lawyers, and executives do. This phenomenon, in essence, tells blacks NOT to strive and work towards occupying one of those power positions in the future since to do so would make you an oreo.
This stigma puts up a glass ceiling, and many choose to stay under it.

I must make this very clear: This phenomenon is not simply a case of white racism. Many whites do play a significant role in its propogation, and that is a problem for "oreos" who grow up in some suburban areas. But much of this phenomenon(dare I say, maybe a majority of it) is propogated by blacks. You can argue as to what the origins of this mentality may be and its roots in history, but the facts are facts.

Too many of us don't expect anything of ourselves. We don't expect to be more than petty criminals and rap artists. We encourage each other NOT to be intellectual, and when one of us is, we shun them. Many of our most visible figures tell us that this behavior is ok, that being a thug(or "soldier", as Destiny's Child put it) will get you hotter girls or much more money.

Some hope that Obama's election will change this perception, but as of right now, this mentality is ingrained into the culture, sadly enough. Real improvement, I feel, will be elusive until this mentality is changed. Until it is ok for a young African American to speak english, get high grades, and listen to music outside the realm of Lil Wayne and Soulja Boy, then nothing will change. Most young people think in the short term, and what they see in the short term is that black people who do the things I just listed don't get girls, don't have that many friends, and aren't very cool. Like every young person, they just want to be accepted. Thus, they act accordingly. Affirmative action alone will not solve black problems.

So, to conclude, why is this phenomenon beneficial to whites? Because they can strive to be their best without getting punished for it. That is the real white priveledge.
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Old 07-19-2009, 12:37 AM
 
Location: Orlando, FL
12,200 posts, read 18,376,564 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dejuan2 View Post
The main argument against affirmative action is "HIRE THE BEST MAN OR WOMAN FOR THE JOB SHOULD PERIOD"
Well I could see why they're losing - I don't even understand that argument
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Old 07-19-2009, 12:56 AM
 
1,332 posts, read 1,990,034 times
Reputation: 1183
Default Where does it say anything about only Whites benefitting?

Quote:
Originally Posted by dejuan2 View Post
The recent University of Illinois admission scandal has brought to light what most people already know but few were willing to admit. Affirmative action for White people has existed for centuries and continues to occur in many universities across the country.

Bill would fire beleaguered U. of I. trustees -- chicagotribune.com
I read this rather quickly...But, where does it say anything about this situation benefitting only white people?

Am I missing it?
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Old 07-19-2009, 02:08 AM
 
Location: Texas
37,949 posts, read 17,865,154 times
Reputation: 10371
There have been many examples on both sides in this argument. The struggles we have in America are class struggles. As long as the races continue to fight trying to get something for "their" people the rich elite will continue to win and the backbone of our country, the middle class, will continue to come out on the short end of the stick. I am middle class. That is who I identify myself with.

I don't see why anyone would want AA unless it specifically benefits them. Why would you want the Government telling you who you can and cannot hire at work or accept into your school based on sex or race? Wouldnt you want the best available person? If it's my company I would. If it's my competition let them hire someone who isnt as qualified. The government needs to butt out. Their job is not to raise you from cradle to grave.
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