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Documented Immigrants are in this country legally, does not mean their a Citizen, but they are here legally, what part of that are you not understanding. These are the folks that went down to the immigration office and filled out the paperwork.
Those who chose not either apply or renew are NOT documented and are not Legal. You can NOT be illegal and granted SSI unless your using someone else's information.
Why are you unable to focus on the topic and have to keep going back to those who are legal. We are talking about those who snuck across the border and then went down and filed to receive a tax id, (yes, they indeed can receive a tax id) which gave them a documented ILLEGAL status, so they can get a job, pay into social security, file for income tax refunds, and yes, obtain government benefits which include SS, and SSI..
Obtaining a tax ID does not grant an undocumented illegal alien a legal status, it only changes them to "documented illegal alien". Once they are here for a period of time, they can indeed apply to become a "legal alien" but simply becoming documented does not change their status.. It takes time, often years to obtain legal status..
It's rather fitting, since they make nearly everything we buy and sell. And many foreign nations own large portions of our country already. Residential and commercial properties, plus large portions of land. This is all part of the one world movement. Eventually, we won't be a sovereign nation. Once enough countries own enough pieces of this nation, it will cease to be our country. And besides, DC isn't even really a part of "our" country anyway. It is basically a seperate entity. So let them fly the flag of the Communists, doesn't affect my view of this country or the freedom we cherish.
Why are you unable to focus on the topic and have to keep going back to those who are legal. We are talking about those who snuck across the border and then went down and filed to receive a tax id, (yes, they indeed can receive a tax id) No Your not sticking to the topic, the original Topic once again was "are illegal immigrants eligible for SSI, that was YOUR question. YOU provided the link/information that CLEARLY shows that ONLY those who are DOCUMENTED/Legally allowed to be in this country are eligible for benefits, WHY can you not understand that. Why do you have to keep responding back with nonesense? Instead of admitting you were wrong, you just continue with the BS. Why don't you stop twisting and spinning. They are legal once they are DOCUMENTED, but are not a Citizen until they take the oath which is WHAT I SAID. You continue to confirm what I said, but try to switch it around as if you've already suggested. which gave them a documented ILLEGAL status, Show me where this wording is ANYWHERE on the customs website. so they can get a job, pay into social security, file for income tax refunds, and yes, obtain government benefits which include SS, and SSI..
Obtaining a tax ID does not grant an undocumented illegal alien a legal status, it only changes them to "documented illegal alien". Once they are here for a period of time, they can indeed apply to become a "legal alien" but simply becoming documented does not change their status.. It takes time, often years to obtain legal status..
No once their here for a period of time they can apply for Legal Permenent Residency i.e Citizenship.
Why are you making this up as you go along.
The way ANYone entering into the country ILLEGALLY can change their status, they would need to go about getting legal status by filing the appropriate forms at Customs and Immigration Services. They must file a form at the CIS branch near where they live. A form can be expensive but it will provide the person legal status to remain in the USA. Anyone entering into the country illegally and then decide they want to adjust their status, would be considered an EWI or entry without inspection and are deportable under immigration law, the process would be more difficult and longer for them to change their status while in the U.S.
No once their here for a period of time they can apply for Legal Permenent Residency i.e Citizenship.
Why do you completely ignore what I say and then try to respond?
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest
It takes time, often years to obtain legal status..
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackandproud
The way ANYone entering into the country ILLEGALLY can change their status, they would need to go about getting legal status by filing the appropriate forms at Customs and Immigration Services. They must file a form at the CIS branch near where they live. A form can be expensive but it will provide the person legal status to remain in the USA. Anyone entering into the country illegally and then decide they want to adjust their status, would be considered an EWI or entry without inspection and are deportable under immigration law, the process would be more difficult and longer for them to change their status while in the U.S.
We are not talking about someone becoming legal which is the steps you are discussing, we are talking about taking somoene from an illegal undocumented to illegal documented.
Hell, illegals even can receive Social Security provided they receive ITIN numbers and pay into the system, but doing so does not mean they stop being illegals.. It just means that they are taking part in that "period of time" (your words) in order to TRY to change their status to the next step of legal.
I've explained to you NUMEROUS times just some of the classifications for illegals and you continue to respond as if they are either legal, or illegal which is flat out wrong. I've also given you the direct link to the social security website where they clearly list that an alien would have to meet qualifications to receive benefits, and nothing on those pages would stop a "documented ILLEGAL alien" to receive benefits.. The keyword being documented.. not alien.
Call the social security office and argue with them, I'm done going in circles because if you want to ignore the Social Security requirements page, then there is no hope..
whats rong with china? If we buy all there goods from walmart, and they practicly own us shouldnt we fly there flag? The hardcore repubricans that love walmart, small town shopin, and America ironicary are the ones the most upset.
I'm not going to pull a Joe Wilson, nope not gonna do it.To keep from having you report me again from making a personal attack, i'll just add the complete list of OUR discussion considering you only respond and keep the portion that applies to the comment your trying to change,
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest
Are you claiming that illegals dont get to take part in medicare, medicade, social security etc?
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackandproud
Thats exactly what i'm saying..Illegal Immigrants can not LEGALLY receive Social Security. Illegal Immigrants can ONLY receive welfare if they have a qualifying child AND ONLY that CHILD will receive the medical benefits. In the case of Welfare AFDC and Foodstamps, the benefit will come in the childs name in care of the parent HOWEVER the parent of course will benefit from it. I'll save you the trouble of asking for proof.
I hate to show your wrong again, but immigrants can indeed receive Social Security, in fact there was a class action lawsuit filed because the government was delaying the status of those who received it.
Even the Social Security website lists qualifications for non citizens to receive some benefits like SSI, Social Security Online - Immigration (social security Income) which include:
Noncitizens who have applied to become lawful permanent residents within four years from the date they began to receive SSI, as verified by the Department of Homeland Security; (which means that they can enter illegally, apply for SSI, and will continue to receive it for four years unless they apply to become a legal resident..)
They do not receive SS unless they pay into it, but illegal aliens can obtain a temporary tax numbers and use this number to pay into the program. I'll confess that its extremely rare, but it can and does happen. It wasnt that long ago that there was a big debate over them receive tax refunds for the earned income tax credits, (why many obtained the temporary tax numbers to begin with), I dont know if this loophole has been closed.
As for your statement about welfare, the requirements vary greatly state to state, as it should..
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackandproud
Goodness gracious, did you not read this? You are SO wrong that its pitiful. The onlything you've shown me is that your too busy in reactive mode and trying to be so smart, you forget to read and comprehend. ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS CAN NOT obtain SSI.
" On September 30, 2008, the Supplemental Security Income (SSI) Extension for Elderly and Disabled Refugees Act was signed into law (P.L. 110-328). This law provides for up to two years of additional benefits for certain SSI recipients who had their benefits terminated due to the seven-year time limit.
The seven-year SSI eligibility period for refugees, asylees, and certain other humanitarian immigrants (including victims of human trafficking) is extended up to two years, or three years for certain individuals during the period October 1, 2008 through September 30, 2011. To qualify, otherwise eligible noncitizens are required to sign a declaration indicating that they have made a good faith effort to pursue U.S. citizenship unless they are under age 18 or have an application for naturalization that is pending or has been approved.
If all SSI eligibility requirements are met, the two-year extension may apply retroactively to noncitizens whose SSI previously ceased due to the expiration of the seven-year period, but not earlier than October 1, 2008 even if all eligibility factors are met before that date.
Which Noncitizens Are Eligible?
Noncitizens who have been lawful permanent residents for less than six consecutive years, as verified by the Department of Homeland Security;
Noncitizens who have applied to become lawful permanent residents within four years from the date they began to receive SSI, as verified by the Department of Homeland Security;
Cuban and Haitian entrants, as defined in section 501(e) of the Refugee Education Assistance Act of 1980;
Noncitizens who have had their deportation withheld by the Secretary of Homeland Security under section 243(h) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (as in effect on December 31, 1996) or whose removal is withheld under section 241(b)(3) of such Act; and
Noncitizens who are younger than age 18, or age 70 or older.
The law also exempts from the time-limited SSI eligibility period (during the three-year window of October 1, 2008 through September 30, 2011) certain noncitizens if they have naturalization applications pending or if they are awaiting the citizenship swearing-in ceremony, as verified by the Department of Homeland Security. This exemption also applies to individuals with applications pending with the U. S. Citizen and Immigration Service (USCIS) who were previously rendered ineligible due to expiration of the seven-year period. The benefit extension is effective from October 1, 2008 to September 30, 2011. After this date, noncitizen eligibility reverts to seven years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest
Oh my god, you go and tell me that I'm wrong, and then you go and post proof positive that I'm correct..
I have bolded YOUR POSTING, do you see where it says NON CITIZENS can qualify?
Here, I found the SS webpage which actually says they can Understanding SSI -- SSI Spotlight on SSI Benefits for Aliens An alien may be eligible for SSI if he or she meets the requirements of the laws for non–citizens that went into effect on August 22, 1996.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackandproud
Here we go again. Instead of stating you were mistaken, you change up your wording..typical. I NEVER said NON-CITIZENS, the Judge NEVER said NON CITIZENS, the subject was ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS. Get it together and stop....Nope i'm not gonna do it, i've already been accused of ATTACKING YOU PERSONALLY never mind the fact it was true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest
NO WHERE does the Social Security administration seperate immigrants by legal or illegal. The only concern for them in determining of an alien can collect SSI is if they are qualified, or non qualified.
Heck, an illegal alien can come here and be subject to.. let me quote the SS website so you dont accuse me of being "wrong" again...
In addition, you can be a “deemed qualified alien” if, under certain circumstances, you, your child or parent has been subjected to battery or extreme cruelty by a family member while in the United States.
Ok I'll play along, first the definition of Illegal Immigrant.
[SIZE=3]illegal immigrant[/SIZE] n. an alien (non-citizen) who has entered the United States without government permission or stayed beyond the termination date of a visa. (See: alien)
Now from your VERY SAME LINK
Which Noncitizens Are Eligible?
Noncitizens who have been lawful permanent residents for less than six consecutive years, as verified by the Department of Homeland Security;
Noncitizens who have applied to become lawful permanent residents within four years from the date they began to receive SSI, as verified by the Department of Homeland Security;
Cuban and Haitian entrants, as defined in section 501(e) of the Refugee Education Assistance Act of 1980;
Noncitizens who have had their deportation withheld by the Secretary of Homeland Security under section 243(h) of the Immigration and Nationality Act (as in effect on December 31, 1996) or whose removal is withheld under section 241(b)(3) of such Act; and
Noncitizens who are younger than age 18, or age 70 or older.
What part of ILLEGAL are you not grasping, the part where you were WRONG i take it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest
What you listed in RED is the qualify for the "Temporary Extension of Benefits", did you see the top of the page where it says what the link is for Social Security Online - Immigration
Initial benefit requirements are listed are listed here Understanding SSI -- SSI Spotlight on SSI Benefits for Aliens and illegal or legal status is not mentioned ONCE in determining qualifications. You do need to provide your status to qualify, but if your illegal, and fit into one of the 7/8 categories, you still can obtain benefits. Being denied deportation, or being the victim of battery here in america does not grant you a "legal immigrant" status, you retain an "illegal immigrant qualified" status..
If you think they are wrong, please call 1–800–772–1213 and ask them to change their policies.. I have no control over it..
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackandproud
Your still, parsing words. LAWFUL IMMIGRANTS no matter how you try to play the word game., ONLY those who are DOCUMENTED are eligible for SSI. This was on the floor for a vote, but was shut down, I provided you with the link, but you chose to ignore it and then proceeded with (i'm going to use your favorite line) Prove my point that ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS are NOT covered.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest
Wait, so now your admitting that ONLY DOCUMENTED are eligible for SSI? Great, we are making progress, now do you understand that illegal aliens can be documented aliens?
I've provided you with links DIRECTLY to Social Security which tells you how illegal aliens can indeed obtain benefits, you are the one who chooses to ignore it. If you think its a "word game", please tell them to stop playing it.. After all, its THEIR website..
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackandproud
Damn you are hopeless. I NEVER STATED THAT Document IMMIGRANTS ie LEGAL IMMIGRANTS WERE NOT ELIGIBLE for SSI. What is wrong with you. The topic of discussion, YOUR CLAIM, was Illegal immigrants can obtain SSI and according to YOUR link, according to SSI site, THEY CAN NOT, their are REQUIREMENTS they MUST MEET. If they ARE NOT DEEMED LEGAL or DO NOT FALL Withing those REQUIREMENTS they will not receive SSI. Why is that so hard for you to comprehend, why must you ALWAYS play the bait and switch, twist word game instead of admitting you were WRONG? Reading comprehension and not Subliminal messages.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest
What you put in black is true because of the "does not fall within the requirement", but what about a documented illegal alien that does fall within the requirements? Where on the SS website does it say LEGAL is a requirement?
It CLEARLY says you must be QUALIFIED, it does not say you must be LEGAL. Part of the requirement is that you must indeed be DOCUMENTED, but it never says legal, and they are not the same.
There are several classes of illegal aliens but in general they are as follows
1) illegal undocumented alien worker can not receive SSI
2) illegal documented alien worker can receive SSI if they meet the requirements
3) legal alien worker can receive SSI if they meet the requirements
Do you even know that status #2 above existed? Its almost like you think that when one becomes documented, they are granted a legal status, which simply is not true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackandproud
Documented Immigrants are in this country legally, does not mean their a Citizen, but they are here legally, what part of that are you not understanding. These are the folks that went down to the immigration office and filled out the paperwork.
Those who chose not either apply or renew are NOT documented and are not Legal. You can NOT be illegal and granted SSI unless your using someone else's information.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest
Why are you unable to focus on the topic and have to keep going back to those who are legal. We are talking about those who snuck across the border and then went down and filed to receive a tax id, (yes, they indeed can receive a tax id) which gave them a documented ILLEGAL status, so they can get a job, pay into social security, file for income tax refunds, and yes, obtain government benefits which include SS, and SSI..
Obtaining a tax ID does not grant an undocumented illegal alien a legal status, it only changes them to "documented illegal alien". Once they are here for a period of time, they can indeed apply to become a "legal alien" but simply becoming documented does not change their status.. It takes time, often years to obtain legal status..
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackandproud
No once their here for a period of time they can apply for Legal Permenent Residency i.e Citizenship.
Why are you making this up as you go along.
The way ANYone entering into the country ILLEGALLY can change their status, they would need to go about getting legal status by filing the appropriate forms at Customs and Immigration Services. They must file a form at the CIS branch near where they live. A form can be expensive but it will provide the person legal status to remain in the USA. Anyone entering into the country illegally and then decide they want to adjust their status, would be considered an EWI or entry without inspection and are deportable under immigration law, the process would be more difficult and longer for them to change their status while in the U.S.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pghquest
Why do you completely ignore what I say and then try to respond?
We are not talking about someone becoming legal which is the steps you are discussing, we are talking about taking somoene from an illegal undocumented to illegal documented.
Hell, illegals even can receive Social Security provided they receive ITIN numbers and pay into the system, but doing so does not mean they stop being illegals.. It just means that they are taking part in that "period of time" (your words) in order to TRY to change their status to the next step of legal.
I've explained to you NUMEROUS times just some of the classifications for illegals and you continue to respond as if they are either legal, or illegal which is flat out wrong. I've also given you the direct link to the social security website where they clearly list that an alien would have to meet qualifications to receive benefits, and nothing on those pages would stop a "documented ILLEGAL alien" to receive benefits.. The keyword being documented.. not alien.
Call the social security office and argue with them, I'm done going in circles because if you want to ignore the Social Security requirements page, then there is no hope..
Get it together and just STOP...Mods you don't need to threaten me again with infractions I'll just leave it at this.
Being since China has decided to begin blocking US ISP's from viewing your link, here is the Google cache of the page;
China's national flag to go up in White House on Sept 20 (http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:_cwbY8qe864J:www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2009-07/13/content_8422505.htm+http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2009-07/13/content_8422505.htm&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us - broken link)
Being since China has decided to begin blocking US ISP's from viewing your link, here is the Google cache of the page;
China's national flag to go up in White House on Sept 20 (http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:_cwbY8qe864J:www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2009-07/13/content_8422505.htm+http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2009-07/13/content_8422505.htm&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us - broken link)
and here is the link to the fox news page that discredits the story, since people still seem to be missing it:
guys who are arguing about health care - maybe you could cut & paste the most recent argument into another thread? mods, could we work something out, like locking this thread and starting a new one about the subject, and having the health care debaters move to another thread on the subject? this is really annoying.
I'm not going to pull a Joe Wilson, nope not gonna do it.To keep from having you report me again from making a personal attack, i'll just add the complete list of OUR discussion considering you only respond and keep the portion that applies to the comment your trying to change,
Great, you put it all together in one place, now maybe you can stop, re-read them all in order, and then comprehend it..
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