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Interesting concept, though it's been tried many, many times before based on the exact same principles. It's always failed because humans aren't evolved enough yet to, for example, handle voluntarily paying taxes (even though that's what advanced civilizations do).
A few technicalities:
I'm pretty sure you can't take land from the United States, whether in Vermont, Michigan, or Colorado - though they're all quite beautiful states.
If you're eating free-range meat, you're going to need some kind of weapon to kill the animals. Even if you're just shipping it in, someone's slaughtering the animals someone. To say that such weaponry is against the vision for this place becomes a little hypocritical at that point, even if you don't witness the slaughter.
Is it really productive to live surrounded by "like-minded" individuals? One of the great assets of the world is encountering people of very different perspectives. I'm not sure I would find such homogeneity to my liking.
I'm pretty sure you'd encounter a lot of base human nature at work, no matter the stated intentions. Whenever I have interacted with people drawn to this lifestyle, I have found many of them to be amongst the most power-hungry, narcissistic, and greedy individuals I've ever encountered. Eventually, hierarchies form and people want to be in control of the commune and some want to sleep all day while others do all the work...
There's a reason these lofty concepts don't work yet, but it is important that we start exploring new systems. The current one has run its course.
Although I am a libertarian and would never join any socialist experiment I do wish you luck in your endeavor. It is precisely this type of movement of like-minded people attempting to free themselves from the evils of The State that I think best represents true freedom that The People should engage in.
I would suggest though that you get very serious about preparing for the inevitable attacks by the centralized oppressive force that will come down upon your people. Remember, just because you are "collectivists" does not mean that the current collectivist tyranny will not attempt to strike you down as soon as you appear on the "radar" of the tyrants. The Federal Regime is no more your ally than they were to other groups seeking freedom. Thinking that the Federal Occupying Force will be any kinder to you than any other group trying to exercise their natural rights in the past will only get all of you killed, burned alive, or forceably "disappeared" because your group will be painted as "dangerous".
Again, although I think that you are foolishly ingnoring the evil threat of "our" government, I wish you the best of luck.
Oh we are not ignoring it...just taking things on a first things first basis, keeping the security and longevity of our people in mind. One of the reasons that Vermont looks possible is due to their large movement there to suceed with the hopes that they in turn would recognize our claim.
Given the current political environment I think it is clear that there are going to be a few independant states springing up sooner rather than later. All of the more reason for successionists projects to band together to insure their own individual nations/states rights to live as they determine best for them.
But I also think this is why purchasing one of the outlying islands would prove to be most feasible for our long term goals since they are currently uninhabited, provide us with what we need to survive but are of little value to anyone else. There are a couple that I personally like but again, it is a group decision.
Oh we are not ignoring it...just taking things on a first things first basis, keeping the security and longevity of our people in mind. One of the reasons that Vermont looks possible is due to their large movement there to suceed with the hopes that they in turn would recognize our claim.
Given the current political environment I think it is clear that there are going to be a few independant states springing up sooner rather than later. All of the more reason for successionists projects to band together to insure their own individual nations/states rights to live as they determine best for them.
But I also think this is why purchasing one of the outlying islands would prove to be most feasible for our long term goals since they are currently uninhabited, provide us with what we need to survive but are of little value to anyone else. There are a couple that I personally like but again, it is a group decision.
From your mouth to God's ears
I wish I was as optimistic about a growing secession movement as you were. I personally think that the secession of many States is the only hope that freedom has in this nation.
It is funny how, while our politics are diametrically opposed, we can both recognize the need to be freed from the centralized oppressor. If only more people could recognize that independence is the only chance for all of us to live in a world that is more aligned with our own beliefs and interests. Sadly, most simply fight for temporary control of the current evil institution to hurt each other instead of allowing others to be free to live as they see fit by declaring our indepence from its rule over us collectively.
Again, good luck in your pursuit. (Unless you plan to force me to join )
Interesting concept, though it's been tried many, many times before based on the exact same principles. It's always failed because humans aren't evolved enough yet to, for example, handle voluntarily paying taxes (even though that's what advanced civilizations do).
A few technicalities:
I'm pretty sure you can't take land from the United States, whether in Vermont, Michigan, or Colorado - though they're all quite beautiful states.
If you're eating free-range meat, you're going to need some kind of weapon to kill the animals. Even if you're just shipping it in, someone's slaughtering the animals someone. To say that such weaponry is against the vision for this place becomes a little hypocritical at that point, even if you don't witness the slaughter.
Is it really productive to live surrounded by "like-minded" individuals? One of the great assets of the world is encountering people of very different perspectives. I'm not sure I would find such homogeneity to my liking.
I'm pretty sure you'd encounter a lot of base human nature at work, no matter the stated intentions. Whenever I have interacted with people drawn to this lifestyle, I have found many of them to be amongst the most power-hungry, narcissistic, and greedy individuals I've ever encountered. Eventually, hierarchies form and people want to be in control of the commune and some want to sleep all day while others do all the work...
There's a reason these lofty concepts don't work yet, but it is important that we start exploring new systems. The current one has run its course.
We have no intention of "taking away" anything from anyone, our plan is to rightfully purchase a territory to build our community.
Secondly, there are not too many free range farms that use guns to kill their livestock so I am not sure where you were even going with that one; the comparrison seems misguided at best.
People keep saying that efforts to build communities have always failed in the past but that simply is not true, there are many success stories of communes/intentional communities that were built 40-50 years ago and are still thriving. There's the Farm in TN, and the ecovillage in Ithaca which has a similiar model to our own has been very successful. People just do not publicize such sucesses very often because they prove that it can be done, and done without the ills of capitalism.
Like minded does not mean identical. The US for example, was founded by like minded individuals in the beginning but they were not all indentical. Our ciitzens share common values and a commitment to common goals as a people but we are all individuals with our own unique talents and gifts and we celebrate that diversity.
And, of course, I agree that the current system is obviously broken and that is why we MUST have an alternative system. But if we wait until everything has collapsed into chaos to rebuild it will take forever, and cost many lives in the process. We want to act proacatively and plan a new community on values that have long range, sustainable potential and while there are certainly are many details and many challenges that we will face, you have to start somewhere.
As Dostoevsky said, "[SIZE=4]Neither man or nation can exist without a sublime idea."[/SIZE]
Interesting concept, though it's been tried many, many times before based on the exact same principles. It's always failed because humans aren't evolved enough yet to, for example, handle voluntarily paying taxes (even though that's what advanced civilizations do).
Surely, those who support adding and increasing government entitlement programs are more 'evolved' and 'advanced.' So... why not let them voluntarily pay more taxes into the current system to support their goals and keep the taxes on the rest the same as they are now? You know - a 'put your money where your mouth is' kind of concept. There are a lot of wealthy left-wingers. They're perfectly capable of taking on this challenge themselves. C'mon lefties, make a big-government big-entitlement state work with your own money, first, and then if you can show that it works, you will be more likely to convince the doubters to join you in your higher tax liabilities.
I wish I was as optimistic about a growing secession movement as you were. I personally think that the secession of many States is the only hope that freedom has in this nation.
It is funny how, while our politics are diametrically opposed, we can both recognize the need to be freed from the centralized oppressor. If only more people could recognize that independence is the only chance for all of us to live in a world that is more aligned with our own beliefs and interests. Sadly, most simply fight for temporary control of the current evil institution to hurt each other instead of allowing others to be free to live as they see fit by declaring our indepence from its rule over us collectively.
Again, good luck in your pursuit. (Unless you plan to force me to join )
I think you just hit the nail on the head. Like other movements such as ours, the main point is that people should be free to choose which community/political system works for them with their values and to build up their own communities based on those values.
I see no reason why, for example, a liberatarian conservative state could not co-exist with ours side by side with an understanding that we each have a right to be free and to choose our own systems while mutually supporting and recognizing the soverignty of the other. It is my hope that those involved in the movements for states to succeed will realize this. Civilization can only work if communities work and we need a united front of communities working cooperatively, but independantly in order to make anything work.
Personally I think trying to rule 300,000 million people with one idea is never going to work, not unless we do some MAJOR fundamental changing of the cultures and ideology which does not seem likely.
Of course, Zandrovia is rather unique in that we have something for everyone in some way and have balanced various conservative and liberal ideas taking the best of both and melding them together in a unique fashion. For example, pornography and exploitation is not allowed, we value all life, born and unborn, while at the same time protecting animals rights and having a strong environmental policy and protect the rights and dignities of every citizen regardless of sex, race, age, etc. We honor the judeo-christian principles while embracing different religious paths.
It is a balance that seems to serve us well and will continue to grow and mature as the community grows.
I don't want to be around "like minded people" all the time. I would never learn anything.
Education and life long learning is one of our highest priorities....being in a like minded community does not mean shutting yourself off from other opinions beside your own, it simply means sharing the same communal values of cooperation and compassion, equality, and justice.
Why people think "like-minded" means no one ever has an opinion is beyond me...too many knee jerk reactions I suppose.
Surely, those who support adding and increasing government entitlement programs are more 'evolved' and 'advanced.' So... why not let them voluntarily pay more taxes into the current system to support their goals and keep the taxes on the rest the same as they are now? You know - a 'put your money where your mouth is' kind of concept. There are a lot of wealthy left-wingers. They're perfectly capable of taking on this challenge themselves. C'mon lefties, make a big-government big-entitlement state work with your own money, first, and then if you can show that it works, you will be more likely to convince the doubters to join you in your higher tax liabilities.
I am not sure why you bothered posting this here as it is way off topic but I will say such inane comments proves you have missed the point entirely.
I am not sure why you bothered posting this here as it is way off topic but I will say such inane comments proves you have missed the point entirely.
No... you're proposing secession. I'm asking why the same concept can't be applied to the system we already have, without secession.
Nice intolerance of other ideas, by the way. Would such intolerance be a charter value in your new micronation?
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So... why not let them voluntarily pay more taxes into the current system to support their goals and keep the taxes on the rest the same as they are now? You know - a 'put your money where your mouth is' kind of concept. There are a lot of wealthy left-wingers. They're perfectly capable of taking on this challenge themselves. C'mon lefties, make a big-government big-entitlement state work with your own money, first, and then if you can show that it works, you will be more likely to convince the doubters to join you in your higher tax liabilities.
Would such intolerance be a charter value in your new micronation? 
