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Anyone with any sense knows that the folks who opt out won't bother to save for their old age.
Mike, I respectfully disagree.
There are MILLIONS of Americans who, over the decades, have opted out (and continue to this day to opt out). And while I cannot speak for each and every one, it is sort of a "club" that we are in - and as such, there is communication.
And pretty much the one thing in common is the making sure that provisions are made for that retirement and such.
I've several family members who haven't a cent to their names except for their monthly SS payments as they spent and/or wasted every cent they ever had.
In 2006 (the last year for which detail are available), 64% of seniors depended upon SS for at least 50% of their income. 32% depended on SS for at least 90% of their income.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east
I'd love to see the 401-k scheme go into play, but Congress would hate it as then there really would be a "lockbox" that Congress could not touch, and it would drive them wild (I love it). No more budgetary smoke and mirrors, no more "off budget" double talk. This could go a long way to restoring fiscal sanity to that mob in DC and the 33,000 lobbyist ho's who call K Street home.
Not to burst any bubbles, but under most conditions, the Treasury would simply borrow the same money from someone other than the Social Security Trust Fund. When there isn't cash in the General Fund to cover expenditures, Treasury borrows from someone. SSTF, China, some university endowment fund...
The government needs your SS income to cover the $105,882,000,000,000+ they have promised to pay others in unfunded liabilities. U.S. National Debt Clock : Real Time
The government is so far in the hole, its impossible to recover without breaking promises to pay people back.
Precisely my point. Why can't I just take what I pay into social security every month and add it to my existing thrift savings plan? Then I don't want to worry about relying on the government to make good on promises that will inevitably be broken. Instead, I am in essence paying double (i.e. my own retirement fund and SS), yet I will only get back what I've put into my retirement fund. That's BS. I am so sick of government fiscal mismanagement.
Anyone with any sense knows that the folks who opt out won't bother to save for their old age. I foresee millions opting out, but ending up penniless in old age, with Uncle Sam being called upon to save their stupid asses from starving or freezing to death.I've several family members who haven't a cent to their names except for their monthly SS payments as they spent and/or wasted every cent they ever had. Tens of millions of people will drink, smoke, gamble or waste every available cent they have and we cannot let loose any "experiment" of allowing these millions of no-count, no-discipline type people blow their money and expect the rest of us to pay their way 30-40 years down the road.
Only possible way this can work is if there is mandatory payroll withholding of an amount at least equal (and hopefully more) to what SS would withhold and that amount gets put into a 401-k account for those who opt out of SS. It has to be non-negotiable, cannot be withdrawn for any purpose until retirement age is reached, and in the case of death any remaining balance goes into the estate of the deceased. Anything else will be a disaster.
I'd love to see the 401-k scheme go into play, but Congress would hate it as then there really would be a "lockbox" that Congress could not touch, and it would drive them wild (I love it). No more budgetary smoke and mirrors, no more "off budget" double talk. This could go a long way to restoring fiscal sanity to that mob in DC and the 33,000 lobbyist ho's who call K Street home.
I think that's pretty much what I tried to say about 10 pages ago.
Another option would be a true opt-out clause. Opt out of the system and also guarantee that you would opt out of living by the age of 65.
That's probably not very palatable to very many people though.
Btw, did anyone know there are COMPLETE towns which have opted out of SS? I didnt know that, just happened to be watching a show which talked about it..
Galveston County is one of three, (all 3 in texas)
Imagine the odds to see that the ROI in Galveston pays almost twice as much as SS with much better survivorship benefits. Galveston County: A Model for Social Security Reform - Brief Analysis #514 Workers making $17,000 a year are expected to receive about 50 percent more per month on our alternative plan than on Social Security - $1,036 instead of $683. [See the Figure.] Workers making $26,000 a year will make almost double Social Security's return - $1,500 instead of $853. Workers making $51,000 a year will get $3,103 instead of $1,368. Workers making $75,000 or more will nearly triple Social Security - $4,540 instead of $1,645. Galveston County's survivorship benefits pay four times a worker's annual salary - a minimum of $75,000 to a maximum $215,000 - versus Social Security, which forces widows to wait until age 60 to qualify for benefits, or provides 75 percent of a worker's salary for school-age children.
The amazing part is, if you make $75K a year working, you get about $55K a year on your retirement in Galveston, vs $18K a year from SS.. thats a HUGE difference. Why can Galveston be solvent with this type of returns but the feds cant?
Anyone with any sense knows that the folks who opt out won't bother to save for their old age. I foresee millions opting out, but ending up penniless in old age, with Uncle Sam being called upon to save their stupid asses from starving or freezing to death.
I've several family members who haven't a cent to their names except for their monthly SS payments as they spent and/or wasted every cent they ever had. Tens of millions of people will drink, smoke, gamble or waste every available cent they have and we cannot let loose any "experiment" of allowing these millions of no-count, no-discipline type people blow their money and expect the rest of us to pay their way 30-40 years down the road.
You can only speak for yourself and your family members. I and my family members aren't like that. Without the giant social security rip off, I could have had my house paid off years ago, I would have no debt because I don't drink, smoke, gamble, or waste every cent I make.
I have been denied the right to invest my own earnings as I would like to have invested. Without a house payment -- and you know without social security taxes, many people would have applied that money to their mortgage and paid it off in 10 or 15 years. Imagine, you could buy a house at age 25 -- maybe sooner with all the extra cash you'd have by not paying SS taxes, and by age 35 or so, the house would be paid off and the rest of your working life, all that could be saved.
Extremely high social security taxes like we now have also help the banks and credit card companies, the government takes such a large chunk of our earnings that people have very little money left to spend or invest. They end up using credit cards and needing loans for things like cars and even vacations. It's sick what the government is doing to the people.
For all of the young people who think they will never "use" their SS dollars. Cross your fingers, knock on wood and hope that is true. You may not, but your widowed spouse and children may.
I was widowed at 21. It's not exactly the kind of thing one plans for.
I feel like this needs to be repeated. My father died suddenly and very unexpectedly when my brother and I were both very young, and my mom was only working part-time (my father had the main income). SS literally saved our house until my mom could find a full time job.
Yes, I would opt out of SS. I think I could do a better job managing my money than the gov't, and I am not good at managing my money. Medicare is a tricky question, if health care prices weren't so high some people could manage. Unfortunately when we get older we are more likely to need more medical assistance.
I agree, I would opt out. You don't have to be a genius to invest for your own retirement. In fact Steve Forbes had pushed this point a long time ago when he was running for president but was slaped down simply because too many liberals AND conservatives rely on these programs. I don't know how old you are but I am 27. What makes you even think Medicare will be around when I retire? The benefits keep getting cut year after year. That or the age will increase to a point where most people will die before they even get a chance to collect anything, no thanks.
They should not remove social security for those that are mindless imbeciles with no formal education because I guarantee those people will wind up on the street when they are 65 years of age. What they should do is give the OPTION to opt out but force you to open up a privatised account in which you can either choose to manage your own portfolio or have a pre-made one consisting of US treasuries, Municipal bonds, and CDs for safe and slow growth. This will be for those that don't know how to manage their own retirement but still understand that there will be more money there at retirement than social security benefits could offer AND any unused capital would be allowed to be inherited by their children.
Yep, already did, last month and got it approved too.
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