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He KILLED an innocent man. I can understand being frustrated with your situation, but the moment you kill someone else because of your issues you're nothing more than a murderer. RIP my ass. He killed someone and could have potentially killed many others.
Very profound and sadly, probably true. I agree that there are underlying issues for some on these boards. Most often it is just easier and wiser to place them on your ignore list. It does not take many posts to pick up on what these posters are all about and this thread is a perfect example. It should have been closed down.
Actually, I appreciate the chance to learn the thoughts of people like this who share this world with me.
Even though it's scary knowing they're out there you probably will never hear them in 'real life' because I doubt they have the balls to say things like this in front of their community members, co-workers, etc
The British didn't have a lot of nice things to say about the Colonists as we struggled to loose ourselves from King George's yoke, but preserving the rights of the people is always a noble cause though some may not see it that way. Did Stack go too far? Well of course he did, but when I see commercials all the time on TV for law firms that do nothing but represent tax payers in disputes with the IRS, the state has gone too far as well. Can you think of any other agency that requires citizens to hire lawyers to defend themselves from the power of the state or causes this sort of duress to people who simply wish to left alone?
Ya, I can. A lot of people have trouble getting Social Security Disability and need to hire a lawyer. They are also under a LOT of stress and in worse shape financially and physically than Stack was.
While you're busy romanticizing colonial patriots please remember that Stack tried to game the system by declaring himself a church. That's not just having a little dispute with the IRS, that's trying to cheat and pay less than the rest of us law abiding people. Over and over again, he didn't things that he knew full well weren't legal like hide income. Stack had no one but himself to blame for his problems with the IRS.
Should citizens need lawyers to fight with the government over SSDI or IRS payments? That's a fine line to walk and we all know it. If the government just took everyone's word about a disability or declaring yourself a church, then others are ticked off about paying more to make up for those who game the system. If the government pushes hard on the cheaters then a few people like the OP are all too willing stick a totally inappropriate hero label on the cheater's chest.
For heaven's sake let's not change the conventional way of doing things, no way. And damn those people who fought for civil rights and committed acts of civil disobedience in order to force a change in the convention of the time; you know, segregation and all that. They broke the rules and the civil rights movement was born.
This wasn't an act of civil disobedience.
Civil disobedience is about breaking a bad law, and then forthrightly dealing with the consequences. The laws against murder, against taking a plane and flying it into an office building where hundreds of people are at work, that's not a bad law. And Stack had no intention of dealing with the consequences of his action, he knew he would die, and that is the nature of his cowardice.
Civil disobedience was in Stack identifying the specific tax laws he disagreed with, and then deliberately breaking those laws, not with the intention of getting away with breaking the law, but with the intention of being punished for breaking the law, but also with the intention of drawing public attention to the injustice of the laws. Tax evasion is not civil disobedience. Refuse to pay your taxes, but make sure "the man" knows about it, and peacefully accede to the penalties for breaking the law. That's civil disobedience.
You don't understand. The difference I am referring to is that I realize BOTH are wrong you think Stack was a hero. If a government doing it is wrong then Stack was wrong. Get it!
No I don't get it. Stack was trying in a very small way to dismantle an rotten, disgusting system. I'd like to see the same thing happen to every government building and in the process have every file Big Brother keeps on us destroyed. Yes it's a shame that Hunter was killed, it would have been much better if any fatalities could have been reserved for politicians rather than a rank and file employee.
People who think like Stack are not in the minority. If working through the "proper channels" would fix the problem, don't you think it would be fixed by now since working through the "proper channels" has pretty much been standard procedure for so long? Besides, who created the "proper channels" to begin with? Yes, the very ones we are trying to defeat. I'm sure that people like Stack did not arrive at the conclusion that violence may be the only answer overnight. In fact reading his manifesto it is quite evident that he didn't. But people can only be pushed so far before they resort to extreme measures.
Just like our government has declared war on other nations in the past and continues to do so, we must declare war on the government. Joe Stack receives a metal of honor for his valiant bravery in fighting a cause much greater than any this country has fought for recently. He fought for us. He fought for freedom for the common person, not for expanding markets for Wall Street thugs. He was a good soldier indeed.
Consent Withdrawn: You said, "I'd like to see the same thing happen to every government building and in the process have every file Big Brother keeps on us destroyed." All that would accomplish is that our taxes would go up because all those buildings would have to be rebuilt. Can you honestly tell me why you don't move to another country, if it's so bad here? Stack's daughter did.
An appropriate way to protest high taxes: Dozens of sign carrying snowmen on the lawn of a state capital building. Stack may have only killed one person, injured 13 and destroyed a building BUT his intent was so commit mass murder that could have numbered into the hundreds. What a cowardly thing to do!
Yes it's a shame that Hunter was killed, it would have been much better if any fatalities could have been reserved for politicians rather than a rank and file employee.
The guy didn't have a fender bender, that would be a shame. He is freaking well dead!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Consent Withdrawn
People who think like Stack are not in the minority. If working through the "proper channels" would fix the problem, don't you think it would be fixed by now since working through the "proper channels" has pretty much been standard procedure for so long? Besides, who created the "proper channels" to begin with? Yes, the very ones we are trying to defeat. I'm sure that people like Stack did not arrive at the conclusion that violence may be the only answer overnight. In fact reading his manifesto it is quite evident that he didn't. But people can only be pushed so far before they resort to extreme measures.
Proper channels would be paying your taxes, and not spending your entire life trying to cheat the system. If you don't like the system, then devote your time and efforts to enact change using sane, political, legal, moral, ethical methods. Or you are welcome to leave the country too. I'm sure there are not going to be too many tears when people of his ilk decide to go and try to cheat some other government.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Consent Withdrawn
Just like our government has declared war on other nations in the past and continues to do so, we must declare was on the government. Joe Stack receives a metal of honor for his valiant bravery in fighting a cause much greater than any this country has fought for recently. He fought for us. He fought for freedom for the common person, not for expanding markets for Wall Street thugs. He was a good soldier indeed.
He didn't fight for me. Your opinions disgust me.
Last edited by Zimbochick; 02-25-2010 at 09:07 AM..
Reason: typo
People who think like Stack are not in the minority.
Just like our government has declared war on other nations in the past and continues to do so, we must declare war on the government. Joe Stack receives a metal of honor for his valiant bravery in fighting a cause much greater than any this country has fought for recently. He fought for us. He fought for freedom for the common person, not for expanding markets for Wall Street thugs. He was a good soldier indeed.
Fortunately for all of us, people who think like Stack are in the minority. It may comfort you to think that you are not alone in your viewpoint, but do not fool yourself into thinking that the majority of people agree with you. Do we dislike the IRS and some of their heavy-handed methods? Yes. Do we think it's okay to fly planes into buildings occupied by IRS employees? No. The majority of people in this country don't think that it's okay to kill innocent people to make your political point. Because it is the wrong thing to do. Wrong as wrong can be.
No I don't get it. Stack was trying in a very small way to dismantle an rotten, disgusting system. I'd like to see the same thing happen to every government building and in the process have every file Big Brother keeps on us destroyed. Yes it's a shame that Hunter was killed, it would have been much better if any fatalities could have been reserved for politicians rather than a rank and file employee.
I am not going to argue that government is corrupt BUT I also understand that killing innocent people is NOT the way to change it. You can agree with Stacks ideas about government but not agree with his actions. The problem is that you agree with his actions.
Quote:
People who think like Stack are not in the minority. If working through the "proper channels" would fix the problem, don't you think it would be fixed by now since working through the "proper channels" has pretty much been standard procedure for so long? Besides, who created the "proper channels" to begin with? Yes, the very ones we are trying to defeat. I'm sure that people like Stack did not arrive at the conclusion that violence may be the only answer overnight. In fact reading his manifesto it is quite evident that he didn't. But people can only be pushed so far before they resort to extreme measures.
Hey sometimes ***** happens and things don't work out in your favor that does NOT give you the right to kill people. It does NOT give you the right to take an innocent life. As I said before I would have a bit more empathy for Stack had he gone after the people that are actually responsible but he didn't he was a coward that thought he was God and could end innocent peoples lives, there is nothing to celebrate there.
Quote:
Just like our government has declared war on other nations in the past and continues to do so, we must declare war on the government. Joe Stack receives a metal of honor for his valiant bravery in fighting a cause much greater than any this country has fought for recently. He fought for us. He fought for freedom for the common person, not for expanding markets for Wall Street thugs. He was a good soldier indeed.
Really a good solider? No he was not a good soldier kills the enemy NOT innocent people. A good soldier does his best to NOT harm innocent people. Stack was NOT a good soldier. He was not a soldier at all. He was a coward not only for killing innocent people but for killing himself. He should have had the balls to stay alive and fight, find a way to gather people and fight to get people who agree with him elected, fight to vote out the ones that keep the corruption going. No he was not noble or honorable he was a coward who took the easy way out.
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