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Seriously, I see all these posts villifying teachers and complaining about the need for performance based pay. What is the performance pay going to be?
If I were a teacher and my income/livelihood/whole career, is going to be based on whether little kids can behave in class, do what they're expected to do, and their parents make them do their homework at home. What would be in it for me? I can go in and give it my all and get through to 24/30 kids in a class (80%) but 6 goof off, don't care about any punishment in school because there's no accountability at home, and don't ever do homework, whats that worth? What if I get a transfer halfway through and he's practically a grade behind because where he was going to school, the teacher was a moron? Am I going to lose my income because of that? Families move all the time, especially in this economy.
Why should a persons income be tied to the actions of others? Its a recipe for driving talented intelligent people out of a profession. So how are you going to make it lucrative enough for the good ones to stay?
Lets hear something more creative than "whatever the market dictates"
I'd love answers for all of this from conservatives.
Seriously, I see all these posts villifying teachers and complaining about performance pay. What is the performance pay going to be?
If I were a teacher and my income/livelihood/whole career, is going to be based on whether little kids can behave in class, do what they're expected to do, and their parents make them do their homework at home. What would be in it for me? I can go in and give it my all and get through to 24/30 kids in a class (80%) but 6 goof off, don't care about any punishment in school because there's no accountability at home, and don't ever do homework, whats that worth? What if I get a transfer halfway through and he's practically a grade behind because where he was going to school, the teacher was a moron? Am I going to lose my income because of that? Families move all the time, especially in this economy.
Why should a persons income be tied to the actions of others?
I'd love answers for all of this from conservatives.
Name one job where the worker being evaluated has absolute total control over all of the factors that play into their evaluated performance. Name one.
Seriously, teachers need to get over this argument that they don't have enough control over the things that influence their performance.
Doctors are held responsible by their patients even though their performance may have been affected by hospital policy, nursing staff, equipment, and of course the patient's cooperation. Their hospital rights are determined on their success rate, regardless of how viable their patients were. Their liability insurance premiums are based on the number of lawsuits filed against them, regardless of if those cases have merit.
CEOs are held responsible for the performance of their company even though the stock market and politics and the performance of the supply chain all play a part in the company's success.
Lawyers are held responsible for the outcome of lawsuits and criminal charges, even though that outcome relies not just on the skill and hard work of the lawyer but also the makeup of the jury, media coverage, the disposition of the judge, and the cooperation of witnesses. Their salary and bonuses are determined by how successful they are in the courtroom, despite the fact that the law firm they work for assigns them to these unwinnable cases.
Despite the difficulty of sorting out the responsibility in every case, somehow the rest of the world manages to get by with performance-based pay. Its about time teachers did the same and started taking responsibility. If they can't handle it, teachers should find a new occupation....in which, as demonstrated above, they will also have to deal with outside factors affecting their performance evaluations.
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
39,031 posts, read 23,027,552 times
Reputation: 36027
Quote:
Originally Posted by kodaka
Name one job where the worker being evaluated has absolute total control over all of the factors that play into their evaluated performance. Name one.
Seriously, teachers need to get over this argument that they don't have enough control over the things that influence their performance.
Doctors are held responsible by their patients even though their performance may have been affected by hospital policy, nursing staff, equipment, and of course the patient's cooperation.
CEOs are held responsible for the performance of their company even though the stock market and politics and the performance of the supply chain all play a part in the company's success.
Lawyers are held responsible for the outcome of lawsuits and criminal charges, even though that outcome relies not just on the skill and hard work of the lawyer but also the makeup of the jury, media coverage, the disposition of the judge, and the cooperation of witnesses.
Despite the difficulty of sorting out the responsibility in every case, somehow the rest of the world manages to get by. Its about time teachers did the same and started taking responsibility. If they can't handle it, teachers should find a new occupation....in which, as demonstrated above, they will also have to deal with outside factors affecting their performance evaluations.
Totally agree. Teachers are the only professionals who blame poor performance on everything other than themselves. It's the parents fault, the students fault, the principal and district's fault, it's (insert governor's name) fault.
Seriously, I see all these posts villifying teachers and complaining about the need for performance based pay. What is the performance pay going to be?
If I were a teacher and my income/livelihood/whole career, is going to be based on whether little kids can behave in class, do what they're expected to do, and their parents make them do their homework at home. What would be in it for me? I can go in and give it my all and get through to 24/30 kids in a class (80%) but 6 goof off, don't care about any punishment in school because there's no accountability at home, and don't ever do homework, whats that worth? What if I get a transfer halfway through and he's practically a grade behind because where he was going to school, the teacher was a moron? Am I going to lose my income because of that? Families move all the time, especially in this economy.
Why should a persons income be tied to the actions of others? Its a recipe for driving talented intelligent people out of a profession. So how are you going to make it lucrative enough for the good ones to stay?
Lets hear something more creative than "whatever the market dictates"
I'd love answers for all of this from conservatives.
My income is directly tied to the actions of others. If my bosses and coworkers make bad decision we go out of business and I have no income.
A high school teacher that is just starting out should be making around $30,000. With some experience and maybe a Masters I say around 50,000. A little less for elementary.
That's for a town with a normal cost of living. Place like New York or L.A. they are gonna have to pay more or teachers will leave to places they can afford.
Location: The Chatterdome in La La Land, CaliFUNia
39,031 posts, read 23,027,552 times
Reputation: 36027
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhioIstheBest
My income is directly tied to the actions of others. If my bosses and coworkers make bad decision we go out of business and I have no income.
A high school teacher that is just starting out should be making around $30,000. With some experience and maybe a Masters I say around 50,000. A little less for elementary.
That's for a town with a normal cost of living. Place like New York or L.A. they are gonna have to pay more or teachers will leave to places they can afford.
Teachers are also the only professionals who are paid like unskilled workers, I mean, big deal you get fired from a $28,000 job. The starting wage for most professionals is way higher than a teacher . All a teacher has over most professionals is Job security, like a janitor working for the state or federal government, but less pay.
I had a teaching job and quit after a year, actually it was at the semester I said I'm not coming back. It wasn't worth all the time you have to put in, and don't get fooled by that "you get summers off "
Why is it that schools in wealthier areas have better schools and athletic teams ? Do they have a way of finding better teachers and coaches from the same applicant pool ? Do they pay them better?, not always. Students from middle and upper class families know they need an education to live at least they way their parents do. IMO the answer lies in high performing students who are attending in low performing schools.
A high school teacher that is just starting out should be making around $30,000. With some experience and maybe a Masters I say around 50,000. A little less for elementary.
IMHO a good teacher is worth much more than that
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Teachers are the only professionals who blame poor performance on everything other than themselves. It's the parents fault, the students fault, the principal and district's fault, it's (insert governor's name) fault.
