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I get the vibe from posters on here that a liveable wage will drive down motivation. I'm not talking about paying low skill jobs like fast food, hotel services etc. 100K per year. I'm just saying they should be paid enough for 40 hours of their time to cover room board and healthcare for themselves and a dependent.
If they want more than a tiny place to live or nice vacations or a car thats not a piece of crap, they can work harder for more. Most people probably will. But so many jobs don't even pay a liveable wage in the first place, and its not like they're more enjoyable than higher up jobs or you don't go home less tired.
Just think if this was done, you could cut back on welfare (for people stuck on minimum wage) you could eliminate the healthcare bill, less big government etc.
Anyone care to give a rational explanation aside from a liberal stereotype for me and a freeloader stereotype for anyone on minimum wage?
Hey- I like this thread.... I think a large part of this would be fixed if Americans used purchase points beyond simply cost. Currently, our society will choose a lowest cost product regardless of where it is made, how much workers are paid, etc....
There have been some inroads with the organic/ green movement (although these movements have become corporatized).
For example... choosing to shop at a locally (family) owned hardware store and pay a bit more for the product, you support a family in the community and provide them a living wage. Or- you can save $$$ on the product by going to Home Depot or Loews and you support a $12 an hour job and a corporation's shareholders.
People can make decisions on a daily basis to support a community, not a global corporation. This would not require any Gov't intervention.
Or- you can save $$$ on the product by going to Home Depot or Loews and you support a $12 an hour job and a corporation's shareholders.
People can make decisions on a daily basis to support a community, not a global corporation. This would not require any Gov't intervention.
You can live fairly comfortable on $12 an hour a lot of places in this country. Throw in all that benefits that person recieves and they are probably making $20 an hour. It's just not all in cash.
And $12 an hour for making a hammer or screw driver is more than fair. I work in manufacturing. A lot of the smaller, cheaper stuff you would buy at Home Depot does not take skill to make. You put the raw godds in a machine and push a button. When the bell go off you pull the product out and load it in a bin. Not that difficult.
LOL...you're telling ME that I'M wrong? I'll go easy on you and just keep it simple: I can say with utmost authority that I do know what i'm talking about. As a civil and aeronautical engineer (P.E.), and engineering consultant to the third largest engineering firm in the WORLD, I can assure you that I know what i'm talking about. HB-1's have helped more than they've hurt, because of the lack of talent. I see it every single day of the year because there are not enough engineering graduates. We, the company I consult for, routinely leverage the HB-1 process because we can't fill the positions. Why can't we fill the positions? Because there are simply not enough students entering, and graduating, in the field.
The irony of your statements is that you perpetuate the problem by urging your kids not to follow in your "trained engineer" footsteps. You have a serious chip on your shoulder that's crying for government handout. This thread screams as much.
Lack of talent? Give me a break... For almost a century, America had the mightiest industry, envy of the world. Our industry was the major factor in winning WW2 for example. With endless inventions and contributions to science and engineering. According to you, a decade or so ago, America changed over night and ceased being creative and talented. All that talent vanished in thin air, just like that...
However, as I said, it is the other way around. For example, where I live, IBM was once a superpower. They had endless facilities in Westchester, Putnam and Dutchess counties (north of NYC). By the end of the 80s they started decimating those strongholds and today after cutting thousands of jobs very little is left. (They recently offered my neighbor who works there for 14 years, to relocate to India...). Are you telling me that all that is because lack of talent???
Also, I can assure you that if you need today talented American engineers you can find them with no problem. Just be ready to pay and relocate them if needed. But, there is even a better way - recruit young talented graduates and train them. Give them time to adjust, promise them a secure job and... they are yours. It worked well for so many years.
No skill jobs are just that. The pay is on scale with the skill required.
With so many out of work..be lucky that we have a min wage scale else you'd see people working for $2/hour.
Education along with desire will get one out of these no skill jobs. Once you get a skill you'll notice that pay is significantly higher.
For example..$800 will get you through a bookkeeping series of classes and certified. Now you have a marketable skill.
And that $800 is easily obtained by the working poor via grants and no-cost loans.
A worker is not being paid for the skill involved. I worker is being paid based on the supply of workers willing and capable of doing a job. If a job requires lots a skill, but there are lots of people with those skills it will be low (or lower) paid.
A worker is not being paid for the skill involved. I worker is being paid based on the supply of workers willing and capable of doing a job. If a job requires lots a skill, but there are lots of people with those skills it will be low (or lower) paid.
It is based on both. It's also based on geography. What types of and how much compensation other than money the worker receives and time spent at work. And taxes and regulations.
There are several factors that goes into ones compensation.
a worker is not being paid for the skill involved. I worker is being paid based on the supply of workers willing and capable of doing a job. If a job requires lots a skill, but there are lots of people with those skills it will be low (or lower) paid.
Lets get serious here, people making minimum wage aren't stuck in a rut of finding a marketable skill, obtaining it, only to find everyone else did the same thing, back to square one.
No, the realilty is, there are shortages of certain professions 100% of the time. People making minimum wage are making such because they have little skills that everyone else doesn't have. You shouldn't be able to make 40-50k a year cause you can breath. Yes education costs money, but guess what, don't screw up in high school and you can get funding for any education.
Most people that are stuck working poor made the mistake bolded above. For that, I'm blaming them, so I shouldn't be shouldered with their 'liveable' wage just so they can live the American Dream that I am busting my *** to.
A good education does not guarantee a livable wage. Becoming highly skilled does not guarantee a livable wage. Wages for most jobs are based on supply and demand for workers. So even low skilled jobs have the possibility of being higher paid if the demand for the worker is high enough and the supply of workers is low.
I get the vibe from posters on here that a liveable wage will drive down motivation. I'm not talking about paying low skill jobs like fast food, hotel services etc. 100K per year. I'm just saying they should be paid enough for 40 hours of their time to cover room board and healthcare for themselves and a dependent.
If they want more than a tiny place to live or nice vacations or a car thats not a piece of crap, they can work harder for more. Most people probably will. But so many jobs don't even pay a liveable wage in the first place, and its not like they're more enjoyable than higher up jobs or you don't go home less tired.
Just think if this was done, you could cut back on welfare (for people stuck on minimum wage) you could eliminate the healthcare bill, less big government etc.
Anyone care to give a rational explanation aside from a liberal stereotype for me and a freeloader stereotype for anyone on minimum wage?
Actually, I may be pretty conservative, but I do in fact support reasonable minimum wage. I consider it a market based, rather than government based version of a "social safety net". I think minimum wages are necessary to prevent excess greed, and to keep people off government entitlement programs. I think in a positive way it forces business owners to uphold certain moral standards. Even though I am a conservative, I feel that if a person has the desire to work and works hard (regardless of if it is a skilled or non-skilled position), he/she at minimum deserves at least enough money for basic food, basic transportation, access to basic health insurance, and a roof over their head.
I believe it is a good thing to keep a 'morality' check on businesses to prevent corruptness and runaway greed.
Here is all you need to know about the minimum wage, wage goes up, the cost of doing business goes up, prices go up, the increase in the wage makes no difference. It's that simple.
If you're unskilled and working at Mcdonalds and want a better wage get some skills and work for it. You'll continually be in poverty no matter what the minimum wage is, period. It will never be enough, they could raise it to $100 an hour and it still wouldn't cover the cost of living.
No more discussion needed on this topic until you understand that.
Actually, I may be pretty conservative, but I do in fact support reasonable minimum wage. I consider it a market based, rather than government based version of a "social safety net". I think minimum wages are necessary to prevent excess greed, and to keep people off government entitlement programs. I think in a positive way it forces business owners to uphold certain moral standards. Even though I am a conservative, I feel that if a person has the desire to work and works hard (regardless of if it skilled or not), he/she at minimum deserves at least enough money for basic food, basic transportation, access to basic health insurance, and a roof over their head.
You may ask why a conservative like myself believes in minimum wage... well, it is simple, minimum wage keeps other people like myself from having to pay higher taxes on lower income people to support entitlement programs.
I also believe it is a good thing to keep a 'morality' check on businesses to prevent corruptness and runaway greed.
Makes sense to me. There is always going to be a pyramid of people. As you get higher the pool shrinks. This is due in part to the individual talent, intelligence, and drive of the individual. It is also due to how socially connected they are, how much money their family has, what their race/sex/age is, etc., in most cases. The masses at the bottom either have to be on welfare or be able to survive on the low paying jobs society requires to be able to function. Or have a revolt and overturn the government. Those seem to be the 3 options. Not everyone can be an astronaut.
The problem today being that "money for basic food, basic transportation, access to basic health insurance, and a roof over their head" is getting out of reach for more and more Americans, or just within it for what used to be considered solid middle class.
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You have a serious chip on your shoulder that's crying for government handout. This thread screams as much.
