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As appropriately addressed by weekender, and stated that your engineer friend is either grossly underpaid or has a creative accountant. Regardless of that, however, does he not pay payroll taxes either?
As of 2005 (according to Tax Policy Center), households making less than $40K still paid at an average rate of about 14% of its income on federal taxes.
Yeah, in many places, less than 40K isn't much over the poverty line, and qualifies for food stamps. So 14% federal, then FICA, Medicare, State Tax ...
Viola! 30% from the poor folks making 25k and being robbed of $7,500.
Heck that should leave them plenty for the Sales Tax, Value Added Tax (on the table right now) Carbon Tax ... and HC fines for not being able to afford insurance.
No you aren't missing anything ... the others that believe this BS are missing the point of it ... for those not filing a return ... just file and you'll get ALL YOUR MONEY BACK .... wink, wink, nod, nod.
Pay no attention to that missing $300 out of your paycheck this week ... you really aren't paying any taxes.
I like the other comment ... "I need a new household". That is probably the most lucid response so far.
Well, the OP is about FEDERAL INCOME TAX, I haven't seen anything to refute that 47% pay none. The real burden isn't on the "poor", it's really on the middle class, that pay the burden of state and federal income tax, SS/FICA, local property taxes and sales tax plus the hidden burden of corporate and business tax. I have read that the middle class tax burden is actually around 40%.
Yet, many middle class people receive little in proportion to what they pay in taxes. They make too much to qualify for welfare, wic, medicaid, food stamps, energy credit, etc. Many members of the middle class also are responsible about not having children until they can afford them as well. Quite honestly, it seems like the poor, that get far more in benefits than they ever pay in taxes, have it pretty well.
To me, asking someone to pay into social security more, and receive no increase for that, is the very definition of wealth distribution.
I'll complain that the richest Americans pay a lower income tax rate, than me, thats true, and it needs to be fixed. However, I don't want them to have to pay higher taxes than me. More money yes, they have more money, so their tax rate entitles them to pay in more, but not a higher tax rate itself.
I think every American should pay a 20% flat tax. No more sales tax, no more gas tax, no more "progressive tax brackets", no more SSI tax, no more medicare tax, just one, flat tax.
That's not fair either. Costs are dictated by the highest incomes ... not the lowest, so that 20% you want poor people to pay ... say some family trying to survive on two minimum wage jobs can barely make it, while someone making Millions, or Billions wouldn't even notice.
The better way to approach this is to leave people's income alone ... WE ARE NOT SLAVES ... if you don't own your own labor, someone else does, and that makes you a slave to THEM.
Better to have a consumption tax (excluding the necessities of life, such as food and clothing and basic energy needs ... i.e. heat, refrigeration etc). Tax all non essentials, and luxury items.
The more of these luxury items you can afford, the more likely you can afford to pay taxes to begin with.
If you cut your own grass ... you shouldn't have to pay $10 gal for gas, 15% sales tax on the lawn mower ....
If you have a gardener working full time for you ... let's tax the the luxury, and not the worker.
Well, the OP is about FEDERAL INCOME TAX, I haven't seen anything to refute that 47% pay none. The real burden isn't on the "poor", it's really on the middle class, that pay the burden of state and federal income tax, SS/FICA, local property taxes and sales tax plus the hidden burden of corporate and business tax. I have read that the middle class tax burden is actually around 40%.
Yet, many middle class people receive little in proportion to what they pay in taxes. They make too much to qualify for welfare, wic, medicaid, food stamps, energy credit, etc. Many members of the middle class also are responsible about not having children until they can afford them as well. Quite honestly, it seems like the poor, that get far more in benefits than they ever pay in taxes, have it pretty well.
I wouldn't say they have it well, but they sure do need to quit belly aching.
Especially considering the folks that hear the most of their belly aching, is those of us that are paying taxes in the middle class.
Last edited by Weekender1968; 04-08-2010 at 12:40 PM..
Reason: clarity
Well, the OP is about FEDERAL INCOME TAX, I haven't seen anything to refute that 47% pay none. The real burden isn't on the "poor", it's really on the middle class, that pay the burden of state and federal income tax, SS/FICA, local property taxes and sales tax plus the hidden burden of corporate and business tax. I have read that the middle class tax burden is actually around 40%.
Yet, many middle class people receive little in proportion to what they pay in taxes. They make too much to qualify for welfare, wic, medicaid, food stamps, energy credit, etc. Many members of the middle class also are responsible about not having children until they can afford them as well. Quite honestly, it seems like the poor, that get far more in benefits than they ever pay in taxes, have it pretty well.
Well then, you should be thrilled with the direction of our country ... as the middle class are on the hairy edge of being homeless and poor ... and will be MUCH BETTER OFF very soon. Then, we can all share in the advantageous position for which the bottom income poor have been enjoying all this time.
Hallelujah! I think you just broke the code!!! Maybe this Obama character really does have a method to his madness after all!!!
To me, asking someone to pay into social security more, and receive no increase for that, is the very definition of wealth distribution.
I'll complain that the richest Americans pay a lower income tax rate, than me, thats true, and it needs to be fixed. However, I don't want them to have to pay higher taxes than me. More money yes, they have more money, so their tax rate entitles them to pay in more, but not a higher tax rate itself.
I think every American should pay a 20% flat tax. No more sales tax, no more gas tax, no more "progressive tax brackets", no more SSI tax, no more medicare tax, just one, flat tax.
This is off topic, but as I understand it, Social Security would not have a problem if the politicians had left it alone in the first place.
But alas, they needed money and took it.
The tax increase was a "temporary" thing to get the system back on track. Once it was returned to "secure" the tax would have expired. But don't put to much weight in this, the study was darn near 20 years ago, who knows what Social Security looks like now
To my knowledge, nothing has ever been done to repay the social security fund, nor has anything been done to stop the politicians from raiding it
As an Engineer, I would expect your friend is very underpaid or has a very creative accountant
Assuming I have calculated my math correctly, a family of 5; married filing jointly with 3 children under 17 for the entire year will not pay any taxes until they earn and AGI of more than $53,650
I want to come back to this, I missed it. You mentioned an adjusted gross income of $53,650. I need to do my taxes and pull out the form, but please refresh my memory, isn't AGI after you take all of your deductions? If so, figuring $7500 per person individual deduction (wasn't that raised?), $10k mortgage interest and $2k property tax deduction (assuming this was greater than the "standard deduction") would put this family's deductions at $49,500. Add that to an AGI of $53,650 puts them at a gross income of 103,150. This doesn't seem right, I expect I am not using the term AGI properly.
I wouldn't say they have it well, but they sure do need to quit belly aching.
Especially considering the folks that hear the most of their belly aching, is those of us that are paying taxes in the middle class.
That's right ... quit yer' btching and count yer' blessings.
You ungrateful lolly gagers need to walk a mile in my Testoni's to appreciate how good you have it.
That's not fair either. Costs are dictated by the highest incomes ... not the lowest, so that 20% you want poor people to pay ... say some family trying to survive on two minimum wage jobs can barely make it, while someone making Millions, or Billions wouldn't even notice.
The better way to approach this is to leave people's income alone ... WE ARE NOT SLAVES ... if you don't own your own labor, someone else does, and that makes you a slave to THEM.
Better to have a consumption tax (excluding the necessities of life, such as food and clothing and basic energy needs ... i.e. heat, refrigeration etc). Tax all non essentials, and luxury items.
The more of these luxury items you can afford, the more likely you can afford to pay taxes to begin with.
If you cut your own grass ... you shouldn't have to pay $10 gal for gas, 15% sales tax on the lawn mower ....
If you have a gardener working full time for you ... let's tax the the luxury, and not the worker.
Look, I've lived of 30,000 a year. I've actually lived on less than that, but I was single, and it was just me that I had to care for.
People make bad decisions, have children, spend to much on a car, whatever. Then, the government bails them out by giving them tax exemptions, and other services.
I'm tired of paying for those services. Healthcare withstanding, thats the help I got from the government when I didn't make that much, you should really be taking care of yourself.
Lets crunch some numbers, shall we?
If you make the federal minimum wage, of 7.25 an hour, and work 40 hour weeks for 52 weeks of the year, you'll bring home around 15K, before taxes.
Now, lets take into effect that you won't have to purchase food, a telephone, TV, and healthcare. That still leaves you with your 15,000 for the year. 20% of that leaves you with around 12,000 for the year. Thats just about 1000 a month. If you can't make a car payment, pay for your gas, and a rental payment on 1000 a month, you've got issues.
My car payment was 200 a month, I paid out about 200 a month for gas, and paid 300 a month for rent. That still would leave you with 300 for electric and water, and when you make minimum wage, you can get subsidies and write that off on the government dime as well.
So don't tell me, someone making minimum wage can't pay in a 20% flat tax yearly, with the plethora of government help you can receive.
And don't give me the "you can't make it everywhere on that much money" argument. If you can't make it where you are, move. The government helps with that to.
The 20% you'd pay in, you're already paying in. You just pay it in tariffs, gas taxes, and other things of that nature. With a 20% flat tax, you drop all other taxes, nationally. It would still be more money than is coming in now, because the richest 20% of Americans would be paying a 20% tax rate, which they aren't paying now.
Besides that, most flat tax proposals would allow for a write off of a certain dollar amount, based on household income. In other words, if you are single, with no dependents, you can write off around 15K a year. If you are in a family of four, you write off 40,000 a year. Which would mean that everyone who isn't paying taxes now, still wouldn't be paying taxes. I still feel thats unfair, but its probably the only politically viable solution.
Still, if the 47% who don't pay income tax, still don't pay any income tax in a flat tax system, it would boost revenue, because the richest Americans would be paying a higher tax rate, then they currently do.
If you make the federal minimum wage, of 7.25 an hour, and work 40 hour weeks for 52 weeks of the year, you'll bring home around 15K, before taxes.
Now, lets take into effect that you won't have to purchase food, a telephone, TV, and healthcare. That still leaves you with your 15,000 for the year. 20% of that leaves you with around 12,000 for the year. Thats just about 1000 a month. If you can't make a car payment, pay for your gas, and a rental payment on 1000 a month, you've got issues.
My car payment was 200 a month, I paid out about 200 a month for gas, and paid 300 a month for rent. That still would leave you with 300 for electric and water, and when you make minimum wage, you can get subsidies and write that off on the government dime as well.
So don't tell me, someone making minimum wage can't pay in a 20% flat tax yearly, with the plethora of government help you can receive.
First ... you apparently just woke up from a 30 year coma, since you think rent is $300 a month ... or you live in a storage unit somewhere.
Secondly, you must have a 15 year auto loan at 3% to get $200. Aside from all of that, you're just nuts.
You already said YOU don't want to pay for all of that Free Food, Medical Care, and so forth ... so make up your mind.
$1000 a month ... piece of cake ... should have plenty left over to invest in the stock market
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