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(1) It's not in the quotation given in this thread.
(2) Allah only knows what he's talking about.
You said:
Quote:
For example, the "aid of the Supreme Being" could have been referring to Allah. The "Freeman contending for Liberty on his own ground" could be referring to an Iraqi or Afghan. And I guess you know what "Tyranny mediated against them" and "slavish mercenary" could be referring to, eh?
I extended the examples to include other things not of the OP. Sorry I lost ya, but...you're right...I guess I got side tracked a bit and a bit off topic.
I extended the examples to include other things not of the OP. Sorry I lost ya, but...you're right...I guess I got side tracked a bit and a bit off topic.
Oh... you didn't lose us.
We just refused to follow your school of red herring.
Originally Posted by actonbell
People all over the world of other countries seem to know and understand that which the many in The United States, do not or will deny.
Quote:
Originally Posted by HistorianDude
And you find that meaningful... how exactly?
Because I am trying to figure out just why it is so important that it is proven to people here in the States that we are not nor have we ever been, a Christian nation. Where are the people in the United States going with this?
I would think to go with it to those in other countries we would be deemed suspect at best based on how the define America.
We are arguing about the meaning behind the words 'supreme being' as to George Washington's heart felt ideals. However, I wounder to take that same argument to those of Eastern descent, would they view those words to have meant Allah, or that of a different god?
Why is this important? People have been and are fighting for a cause and for which cause are they fighting and dieing over?
Why would Washington issue a General Order with the words in it that this one has? I think I know but many here don't agree.
"Our own Country's Honor, all call upon us for a vigorous and manly exertion, and if we now shamefully fail, we shall become infamous to the whole world. Let us therefore rely upon the goodness of the Cause, and the aid of the supreme Being, in whose hands Victory is, to animate and encourage us to great and noble Actions - The Eyes of all our Countrymen are now upon us, and we shall have their blessings, and praises, if happily we are the instruments of saving them from the Tyranny mediated against them. Let us therefore animate and encourage each other, and shew the whole world, that a Freeman contending for Liberty on his own ground is superior to any slavish mercenary on earth." --George Washington, General Orders, 1776
I took this from the Patriot Post quotes from today.
Because he was a Deist, like most Masons of the time.
A Deist is a person who believes in a creator or in this case "Supreme Being" but they don't think that the creator interferes in our daily lives.
Look at the words. He is encouraging people to do for themselves, not for God. He said that the creator gave us these brains, and these virtues, and our courage at creation, and its up to you to use them to free yourself.
That doesn't mean that we should ban gay marriage, or outlaw natural plants, or prevent young women from making decisions based upon their body.
You see, Deists believed that most of the "laws" of the bible, were made up by man, and weren't the real words of the creator.
It never fails to amaze me that people see the words "supreme being" or "God" from the founding fathers, and they instantly think they are talking of the Christian God.
I was born in 1932 but they wiped the slate clean before I got into school. Surely progressives didn't manage to take over textbooks that early in FDR's regime. I know you are right and by now all those who are real progressives and even some just lefties are sure he was not a Christian because they never see the word God in his writings.
It is so obvious that these people don't know and don't want to know and will do anything to protect themselves from these things. It is that old liberal shield I used to talk about all the time.
Roy, I'm younger than you. My days began with O'hare. However, still taught in school that our nation was founded on Christianity. They still had back up text in the Texas history books to prove it. None of which I knew was in question until 10 years ago and the power of the Internet to read what other people think.
However, the concept of 'protecting themselves' is exactly that which they intend to do.
Look, 100 years into the future of the ground work that is being laid today. That which is deniably true, I don't need to tell you Roy, because you already know.
The only reason the battle is being fought over there, is because Bush knew too. If he didn't act, if he didn't pull out all the stops our lives would be very much different in our present day of the progressions.
Because he was a Deist, like most Masons of the time.
A Deist is a person who believes in a creator or in this case "Supreme Being" but they don't think that the creator interferes in our daily lives.
Look at the words. He is encouraging people to do for themselves, not for God. He said that the creator gave us these brains, and these virtues, and our courage at creation, and its up to you to use them to free yourself.
That doesn't mean that we should ban gay marriage, or outlaw natural plants, or prevent young women from making decisions based upon their body.
You see, Deists believed that most of the "laws" of the bible, were made up by man, and weren't the real words of the creator.
It never fails to amaze me that people see the words "supreme being" or "God" from the founding fathers, and they instantly think they are talking of the Christian God.
So if we were to ask one who claims to be Deist....
Quote:
3. That the Founders of America were not "deists" as defined Voltaire, Rousseau, and the French Revolution and the French Enlightenment. The Deism of the French Revolution would be the 'Watchmaker" god of Voltaire that went away after creation and had no further interaction with the world. This was part of the French humanist/atheist effort to de-Christianize French society and substitute Greek and pagan philosophy.
4. That the American Founders never called themselves "Deists" and Jefferson and Adams considered themselves Unitarians and said so. They are better defined as Unitarians because they believed God was active in the world, divine punishment for evil, and an afterlife. In particular I will present Jefferson in his own words. A Critical Examination of Deism
So I guess with all things....it just depends on the person's perspective?
So if we were to ask one who claims to be Deist....
So I guess with all things....it just depends on the person's perspective?
A Presbyterian minister, Arthur B. Bradford, who was an associate of Ashbel Green another Presbyterian minister who had known George Washington personally. Bradford wrote that Green, "often said in my hearing, though very sorrowfully, of course, that while Washington was very deferential to religion and its ceremonies, like nearly all the founders of the Republic, he was not a Christian, but a Deist."
Washington, like all of the founding fathers, did belong to a church. However, as is the case today, church was really a place that leaders had to go. Those who knew him personally often said of him that he was a Deist.
Of course you're right, there is speculation on this, and we will likely never know for sure.
However, many of the founding fathers had very different beliefs than the "Christian" right today.
The simple matter is this, the state is forbidden from sponsoring any one religion, as is written in the Constitution. Therefore, we are not a Christian, Muslim, Deist, or whatever nation. We are simply a nation, a religious nation, but just not Christian.
A Presbyterian minister, Arthur B. Bradford, who was an associate of Ashbel Green another Presbyterian minister who had known George Washington personally. Bradford wrote that Green, "often said in my hearing, though very sorrowfully, of course, that while Washington was very deferential to religion and its ceremonies, like nearly all the founders of the Republic, he was not a Christian, but a Deist."
Washington, like all of the founding fathers, did belong to a church. However, as is the case today, church was really a place that leaders had to go. Those who knew him personally often said of him that he was a Deist.
Of course you're right, there is speculation on this, and we will likely never know for sure.
However, many of the founding fathers had very different beliefs than the "Christian" right today.
The simple matter is this, the state is forbidden from sponsoring any one religion, as is written in the Constitution. Therefore, we are not a Christian, Muslim, Deist, or whatever nation. We are simply a nation, a religious nation, but just not Christian.
You mean that part of the Constitution that protects the church? Remember, one's perspective.
Why would Washington issue a General Order with the words in it that this one has? I think I know but many here don't agree.
"Our own Country's Honor, all call upon us for a vigorous and manly exertion, and if we now shamefully fail, we shall become infamous to the whole world. Let us therefore rely upon the goodness of the Cause, and the aid of the supreme Being, in whose hands Victory is, to animate and encourage us to great and noble Actions - The Eyes of all our Countrymen are now upon us, and we shall have their blessings, and praises, if happily we are the instruments of saving them from the Tyranny mediated against them. Let us therefore animate and encourage each other, and shew the whole world, that a Freeman contending for Liberty on his own ground is superior to any slavish mercenary on earth." --George Washington, General Orders, 1776
I took this from the Patriot Post quotes from today.
roysoldboy !!! ... Great Stuff !
Ideed one can only imagine what our most excellent George Washington's opinion would be today regarding the pathetic state of political leadership in this country and the gross inepitude of it's actions against the will of the American People ! One can only imagine the incredible shame this great man would experience !
George Washington ..... Now theres another real good reason to be "Proud You Are An American" .....Is it not
roysoldboy for President 2012 ! You have my vote !
Could be he knew he was not alone.
Now there is something people won't see in today's history books!
Roy, if you're ever confused about people today in 2010, don't be. They don't know and they don't want to know and that is it in a nutshell. Most these days are quite happy with only half of the story.
Roy, though I must confess that I...had forgotten this that happened to George Washington as I have not retained most of what I should in history teachings and historical accounts. So could be I am not alone in my boat of forgetfulness?
I have to add this from the bottom of the linked page, because this says all of today...
my bold for emphasis.
actonbell !!! ... BRAVO !
Indeed you are most accurate in your post regarding ..... "they don't want to know it" ... It's the actual history of this great nation, it's outstanding leaders and the brave American people of the times that shames so many of todays clueless folks and makes them appear as the "Actual "Simpletons" they truly are !
This is what the wonderful world of PC education has done for so many of our young folks ..... yes it's a tragedy ! How could we the American People have stood by and allowed such a foolish so called system of education to enter our public schools and colleges ! Shame on all of us !
Thanks / Old Sgt. Lamar
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My days began with O'hare. However, still taught in school that our nation was founded on Christianity. They still had back up text in the Texas history books to prove it. None of which I knew was in question until 10 years ago and the power of the Internet to read what other people think.
Great Stuff !
