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I don't need to argue with you. I have first hand knowledge with trying to keep someone off the streets that is mentally ill. If you don't know what form of mental illness can render you socially inept, than there is no point in even discussing the matter with you. Comparing your wife to someone with undeniable paranoid psychosis is offensive. Maybe you should do a little research yourself, talk to someone in your County mental health dept, volunteer at a homeless shelter, etc. I have no reason to "fluff" my case, that's simply ridiculous. Good luck in with your move to Portland.
Don't get pissy because you don't know how to argue. You don't know what the statement on the web site defines as mental illness, you're just looking for something to bolster your case. I never compared ADD to anything your brother has, and I wouldn't, because I have no idea what he has, as I said. However, some definitions of mental illness include anything that needs psychiatric treatment. That includes a whole lot of things, which was my point. I'm sorry that your brother has a serious mental illness. I'm sorry for both of you.
I just don't think that it has a hell of lot to do with the reason there are so many homeless in Portland, which was the point of the thread.
Why does it seem like it is always those who "have done well for themselves" that are the most wrought about taxes? Why do successful people imagine that all would be well if every state in the country turned itself into a tax shelter for the wealthy and did away with all forms of tax revenue, from the wealthy? Crazy. Like a fox. This chicken isn't buying it. Pay up, and if you can't be happy about it, be resigned, but be prepared. To pay. The maneuvering and coercion of otherwise responsible governments into being tacit dupes to legal tax dodging by the wealthy have turned most areas of the country into seething oceans of misery where for the most part only a minute percentage of the population actually lives well. It doesn't have to be that way and in many parts of the world it is entirely possible and reasonable for, say, someone who washes store windows to: own a home, own a vehicle, take an annual vacation (with family), have 2.2 children and educate said children. And all this is possible after paying as much as 50% in taxes.
Most Americans live in states where taxes on gasoline are ~15%. They don't know it because the taxes are rolled into the retail price. Most states have additional taxes on things like hotel/motel rooms. NYC has/had a 21% tax on hotel rooms and the taxes on cigarettes bring the retail price of a pack over $10 now, I'm told. My point is, ordinary wage earners get the standard deduction on their 1040 and pay ~30% directly to the IRS. Then states and local municipalities add their own tax sometimes with a state sales tax to boot and then slip all manner of additional taxes... cell phones are taxed at 10% per month by most carriers. Then they tell us we are slackers and it's actually the wealthy paying all the taxes. The wealthy who don't actually spend anywhere near proportionate to their income. I doubt many smoke, use personal cell phones, take mass transit. No, the wealthy studiously avoid doing anything that invokes a regressive tax and loopholes and deductions protect them from all but the most basic of income taxes. Makes sense? Makes sense to be laying off 100K teachers right around now? Makes sense to eliminate bus routes, raise fares and reduce service on Trimet? Makes great sense to close mental hospitals. Makes sense to eliminate food inspection workers? Why? Because we don't have any money! That's right, things are so bad as regards revenue that, despite the passage of Ms 66/67 it isn't even guaranteed that we can have police, fire or correctional services beyond this fiscal year.
Its just over. It's all over. Portland isn't business friendly enough. a 10% income tax (but no sales tax) is too progressive. We need to eliminate the income tax, eliminate the corporate taxes and, last one out turn off the generators. Yes, very dramatic, we need to get that excited in town hall meetings when they try to tell us that green is orange and yellow is blue. Because we should know better.
H (Where do you think Paul Allen will go when they turn off the generators and let go the Fire and Safety people?)
Don't get pissy because you don't know how to argue. You don't know what the statement on the web site defines as mental illness, you're just looking for something to bolster your case. I never compared ADD to anything your brother has, and I wouldn't, because I have no idea what he has, as I said. However, some definitions of mental illness include anything that needs psychiatric treatment. That includes a whole lot of things, which was my point. I'm sorry that your brother has a serious mental illness. I'm sorry for both of you.
I just don't think that it has a hell of lot to do with the reason there are so many homeless in Portland, which was the point of the thread.
Don't be rude, and don't make assumptions.
I did a simple search for statistics, found a website that didn't look "bias", and copied the site. Overall, 10 seconds of searching. I really don't care if you think anyone is trying to bolster #'s here. You go talk to a few homeless and tell me how "sane" you believe them to be. There is a difference between lazy and mentally ill, and I've said it before that there will always be bad apples. You can't change the people that don't want help. It isn't as easy as giving them a pill and calling it good. There would need to be programs for re-introducing these social degenerates back into society. Not. An. Easy. Fix. Also, I wasn't comparing your wife to my brother; I was stating that ADD is a far cry from debilitating mental illness (Psychosis, Clinical Depression, Schizophrenia, Bi-Polar, drug induced paranoia/psychosis...etc).
If you truly feel that the homeless population are just a bunch of loafers, than so be it. If this is the case, than maybe we should investigate the strategies of modern parenting that are making our children turn into lazy homeless adults.
Why does it seem like it is always those who "have done well for themselves" that are the most wrought about taxes? Why do successful people imagine that all would be well if every state in the country turned itself into a tax shelter for the wealthy and did away with all forms of tax revenue, from the wealthy? Crazy. Like a fox. This chicken isn't buying it. Pay up, and if you can't be happy about it, be resigned, but be prepared. To pay. The maneuvering and coercion of otherwise responsible governments into being tacit dupes to legal tax dodging by the wealthy have turned most areas of the country into seething oceans of misery where for the most part only a minute percentage of the population actually lives well. It doesn't have to be that way and in many parts of the world it is entirely possible and reasonable for, say, someone who washes store windows to: own a home, own a vehicle, take an annual vacation (with family), have 2.2 children and educate said children. And all this is possible after paying as much as 50% in taxes.
Most Americans live in states where taxes on gasoline are ~15%. They don't know it because the taxes are rolled into the retail price. Most states have additional taxes on things like hotel/motel rooms. NYC has/had a 21% tax on hotel rooms and the taxes on cigarettes bring the retail price of a pack over $10 now, I'm told. My point is, ordinary wage earners get the standard deduction on their 1040 and pay ~30% directly to the IRS. Then states and local municipalities add their own tax sometimes with a state sales tax to boot and then slip all manner of additional taxes... cell phones are taxed at 10% per month by most carriers. Then they tell us we are slackers and it's actually the wealthy paying all the taxes. The wealthy who don't actually spend anywhere near proportionate to their income. I doubt many smoke, use personal cell phones, take mass transit. No, the wealthy studiously avoid doing anything that invokes a regressive tax and loopholes and deductions protect them from all but the most basic of income taxes. Makes sense? Makes sense to be laying off 100K teachers right around now? Makes sense to eliminate bus routes, raise fares and reduce service on Trimet? Makes great sense to close mental hospitals. Makes sense to eliminate food inspection workers? Why? Because we don't have any money! That's right, things are so bad as regards revenue that, despite the passage of Ms 66/67 it isn't even guaranteed that we can have police, fire or correctional services beyond this fiscal year.
Its just over. It's all over. Portland isn't business friendly enough. a 10% income tax (but no sales tax) is too progressive. We need to eliminate the income tax, eliminate the corporate taxes and, last one out turn off the generators. Yes, very dramatic, we need to get that excited in town hall meetings when they try to tell us that green is orange and yellow is blue. Because we should know better.
H (Where do you think Paul Allen will go when they turn off the generators and let go the Fire and Safety people?)
I have paid plenty, but thanks for offering up my money for me. If you're paying 30% to the IRS, then you're either making a good income or you don't know how to file your taxes. The vast majority of tax filers get all their income tax returned in a refund. They only pay Social Security and Medicare. I paid top rates for the Feds and the state for many years when I worked for someone else, just because my income was high doesn't mean that I had some secret way to get out of paying taxes. I guess from your asinine comments it's pretty clear you have a chip on your shoulder and have no clue what you're talking about.
Guess what? You're raving on with your communist manifesto stuff but not noticing that people who are making 125000 a year aren't wealthy, yet they have to pay 10.8% in state income tax. For the IRS that income is a middle tax bracket. To you though it seems they are part of some evil capitalist cabal scheming to keep you down.
The tax structure in Oregon is widely regarded to be one of the worst in the country. By having no sales tax and depending on high income and capital gains taxes, it's vulnerable to large variations in tax income from year to year and is inordinately tied to the economic cycle. That, combined with that silly law you have that prohibits the state from retaining a surplus in reserve as a "rainy day" fund, is a big reason why Oregon always seems to be having a budget crisis. Just when the state needs more money, it ends up with less.
I did a simple search for statistics, found a website that didn't look "bias", and copied the site. Overall, 10 seconds of searching. I really don't care if you think anyone is trying to bolster #'s here. You go talk to a few homeless and tell me how "sane" you believe them to be. There is a difference between lazy and mentally ill, and I've said it before that there will always be bad apples. You can't change the people that don't want help. It isn't as easy as giving them a pill and calling it good. There would need to be programs for re-introducing these social degenerates back into society. Not. An. Easy. Fix. Also, I wasn't comparing your wife to my brother; I was stating that ADD is a far cry from debilitating mental illness (Psychosis, Clinical Depression, Schizophrenia, Bi-Polar, drug induced paranoia/psychosis...etc).
If you truly feel that the homeless population are just a bunch of loafers, than so be it. If this is the case, than maybe we should investigate the strategies of modern parenting that are making our children turn into lazy homeless adults.
Where did I say anyone was lazy? I said they need jobs, I didn't say that they didn't want jobs. The economy has to grow to make jobs available. Encouraging business creation and expansion is a great way to do that.
Wow.... I didn't think there was anyone more idealistic than myself! Do you honestly believe most of the homeless population (sans the mentally ill ones) actually want to work? I don't think a lack of jobs is the real problem here. Addiction and lack of motivation are bigger problems than lack of jobs, and how do you explain to said employer that you don't have an address or work experience for months or years. Who would hire these people? The ones I know of are, Good Will, Salvation Army, and Walmart. If I was a business owner selling a product for profit, my first choice for a potential employee would not be a transient.
Wow.... I didn't think there was anyone more idealistic than myself! Do you honestly believe most of the homeless population (sans the mentally ill ones) actually want to work? I don't think a lack of jobs is the real problem here. Addiction and lack of motivation are bigger problems than lack of jobs, and how do you explain to said employer that you don't have an address or work experience for months or years. Who would hire these people? The ones I know of are, Good Will, Salvation Army, and Walmart. If I was a business owner selling a product for profit, my first choice for a potential employee would not be a transient.
From my personal experiences, some of the homeless are unemployable. Their personality, attitude, or interpersonal skills (or hygiene, or whatever) do not make them a good candidate for employment; any kind of employment.
I would not want to be a co-worker, or a retail customer, of some of the street people I have ever so briefly crossed paths with.
The exception is the street vendors of the street newspaper "Street Roots." They seem to be a different type of street people than the panhandlers in General.
Well, if we take PDXBounds web link as more or less true, it says that 90% of homeless are only homeless for a relatively short time. That means that 90% of the people that are homeless at any given time are probably homeless because of personal choices they have made or economic forces. I would interpret that to mean that if there were more, better paying jobs available, fewer of that 90% would be homeless. The remaining 10% are a different story, as they tend to either be addicts or mentally ill. No comments on the article I linked regarding NYC's forced medication of mentally ill homeless? PDX, if you don't mind saying, what services is the city-state government not providing that your brother needs? Housing? Meds? Something else?
This is the quote:
Most, or about 80 percent, exit from homelessness within 2 or 3 weeks. They often have more personal, social, and economic resources to draw from than people who are homeless for longer periods of time.
About 10 percent are homeless for up to 2 months, with housing availability and affordability adding to the time they are homeless.
Another 10 percent are homeless on a chronic, protracted basis, for as long as 7 or 8 months in a 2-year period. Disabilities associated with mental illnesses and substance use are common. On any given night, this group of homeless persons can account for up to 50 percent of those seeking emergency shelter.
This was an idea contemplated in San Francisco, but homeless advocates, aka hurdles to reduction of homeless protested and didn't really go through. The advocates are acting as if the carts belong to the transients in possession.
I don't know why it wouldn't be legal to search any homeless found with a shopping cart on basis of probable cause of criminal possession of stolen property. (if you have a Safeway cart and you're half a mile away from it, it is highly probable that it is stolen), then if search turns out anything illegal, that's a valid arrest. Portland makes it too comfortable for their outlaw behavior by tolerating it.
Why do we lock criminals even if it costs more than the damage they caused? For deterrence.
Since I see cops drive past transients with carts as if there is nothing wrong, the impression is that it is not a crime to walk around with stolen property in Portland. The liberals of course oppose declaring war on crime.
The vast majority of tax filers get all their income tax returned in a refund.
This statement is not true. The only refund taxpayers get is the surplus that was taken from their paychecks over the year. The majority of those funds are kept by the IRS.
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