Relocation - The numbers just dont work... Am I missing something? (Portland: movies, calculator)

[PDXNative2Houston]

Originally Posted by Steve Pickering

I figured that about Spring, but what about Houston downtown? I haven't been there in years.

It's getting a lot better, especially third ward and mid-town. That's now an up and coming neighborhood. Downtown is in a boom phase you could say, but is still mostly your normal business commuters coming to and from.

[Steve Pickering]

Well that more or less says why it is cheaper to live there. As I said it is an exception because the New Money crowd expect more pay than what the area should command.

[psichick]

My two cents from someone who moved from OC (so rent was probably less or about the same as SF). Definitely make sure you have a secured job before moving up. I would say unless you have cash saved up, but if you're struggling there, then I'm assuming you have no savings (or something you don't want to touch).

What are you renting now? What are you looking for here? Are you willing to live more out in the suburbs? Where would you work? If you're looking for apartments in downtown, yes, very expensive. Go out a bit, maybe 5-10 miles, rent starts to drop, a lot. It just depends on where you'd work and where you want to live. I had a possibility of saving up to $600/mo on rent. Where I chose to live, saves me about $400/mo. That will be offset by the electricity bill, I'm sure, when winter hits.

COL, I was told I could live off of $15k less and be fine. Problem is, jobs are about $20+ less. So, I'm going to have issues, I already know that (income wise).

Taxes. OR is flat 9%. If you come from CA and make less than $45k, then yes, it's higher. If you make more, which you are, it's lower. CA is on a scale, depending on how much you make. OR doesn't care if you're making $15k, you're still taxed at 9%.

Yes, no sales tax. It can add up. I've been keeping a running total. However, I wouldn't look at it as a savings, unless you 1. eat out a lot, 2. buy a lot, and 3. plan on buying a big ticket item. And if you're struggling in CA, you shouldn't be spending like crazy here anyways until you regain your footing, right? Right!

Lastly, one place that you will save is your car. Maybe not on car insurance (mine actually went up about $100/yr). But the car registration here is $110/TWO YEARS!!! I'm dead serious. It's a flat fee. I'm saving about $300/yr alone on that. Their driver's license fee is expensive, something like $140, but it's good for 8 years. Not bad if you break it down.

Food wise, I think it just depends on where you end up shopping. I went to Albertson's, holy moly expensive. Safeway, some things expensive. Walmart Neighborhood Market, mostly cheaper. Then they have discount places like Winco (I haven't been there). There's a farmer's market stand near me, fruit/veggies are very cheap compared to any market.

So far, in all honesty, because most apartments don't use natural gas, my electricity bill is going to be high compared to my old place (the water heater is electric, w/d electric, heating electric). Also, I'm going to get very cold, I'm sure. Whereas I never used the heater in OC, I know I'll be using it here. I guess we'll see how insulated my apartment is or is not.

Gasoline is at least cheaper. Yay on that one. I've noticed a $0.10-0.20 difference, but sometimes it's about the same.

So there you go. Rent will be cheaper, by how much depends on where you live. I know my electric bill will be higher because of what I wrote above. Water/trash is more expensive than my last apartment in OC (haven't gotten a bill, but their estimate is about $20/mo higher). Gasoline is cheaper. Food is about the same, but depends on what you buy and where you shop. There is no tax, which will add up, but don't look at it as a place to save, since you have to buy, to save. Cable/internet is about the same. Prices at big box stores are the same, ditto with department stores (I haven't seen any difference).

I think the only way you'll really save money, is if you owned a home in CA, sold it, then bought here. Renting, you can save, but it depends on where you live, like I said, I could have saved up to $600/mo, that's huge. But the job offerings down here, is seriously, half my salary in CA, so it's not easy finding a job that pays enough (the lower paying ones are more abundant - in my field at least).

Hope that helps. I didn't come up here to save money, but hoped I'd save some somewhere. In all honesty, when it comes to saving money up here, I figured I could at least afford to purchase a home on my own one day. That is a reality up here. It's a child's dream down there. If I can get a job and/or work my way up to what I was making in CA, I'd be golden. But I have to get there first. THEN I'll be saving money.

If you can secure a job making $10k less than what you make now, maybe move out towards the suburbs a bit (lower rent), watch what you buy, how you use electricity, etc, I think you'll be able to see how much money goes into your pocket. COL wise, $56k will put you right where you are now, struggling with $90k. Only because that's a huge paycut.

[NWGirl74]

Originally Posted by psichick

Food wise, I think it just depends on where you end up shopping. I went to Albertson's, holy moly expensive. Safeway, some things expensive. Walmart Neighborhood Market, mostly cheaper. Then they have discount places like Winco (I haven't been there). There's a farmer's market stand near me, fruit/veggies are very cheap compared to any market.

My friend and I do a lot of bulk cooking so we created a cost comparison shopping list. With vert few exceptions, WinCo is definitely less expensive than Wal-Mart. Plus it has the advantage of having bulk food items for baking ingredients.

OP, which part of town is the job you are considering? Commute is something else to be factored in-my understanding is parking downtown is expensive, but I've always purposely avoided working downtown. I'm a small town girl at heart and just didn't want to be a part of big city hustle and bustle. (Before anyone argues this is not a big city, I moved here from a town that had roughly 5,200 people when I left, and grew up in a town that now has about 1,700. So to me, Portland is a big city).

[Steve Pickering]

Winco is 5% to 15% lower than Wal-Mart on many items. But Wal-Mart is on average 20% lower than Fred Myers, Safeway and Albertsons, and 25% lower than Roth's. Yes, Winco is mostly 30% to 45% lower than Roth's. They cater to those who detest Wal-Mart, and wouldn't be caught dead in a Winco.

[ladderoflocus]

Portland used to be a poor man's xyz, but COL has risen quite a bit in the past decade to the point that moving there as an economic refuge often doesn't make sense.

[NWGirl74]

Originally Posted by Steve Pickering

Winco is 5% to 15% lower than Wal-Mart on many items. But Wal-Mart is on average 20% lower than Fred Myers, Safeway and Albertsons, and 25% lower than Roth's. Yes, Winco is mostly 30% to 45% lower than Roth's. They cater to those who detest Wal-Mart, and wouldn't be caught dead in a Winco.

My biggest gripe with WinCo is produce and milk tend to go bad very quickly.

[jjpop]

Originally Posted by NWGirl74

My biggest gripe with WinCo is produce and milk tend to go bad very quickly.

Yeah, we've never been impressed with the quality of produce at WinCo, and we buy a lot of produce so we stopped shopping there.

But if you want packaged foods and household items, it's the cheapest around. They also have good deals on beer and wine.

[Leisesturm]

Produce and Meat are WinCo's weak areas for sure. It's amazing what Fred Meyer and Safeway can accomplish when they feel like it, however. Thing is, you never know when they might be feeling generous and without a car we just can't run in on a whim to catch a coupon special.

H

[FSF]

Having lived in both places and spending time regularly in both areas, if you can make $80K here, that should easily be better than the $90K you make in the Bay Area. Even assuming a $500 savings, which I think it is actually more, you'd still come out even just on the $10K. That $10K has to pay federal and state taxes at your highest marginal tax rate, meaning it's really $6-7K you're talking about losing. So it starts out as a wash. A $1500 place here will easily be better than a $2000 place in any decent part of the Bay Area. So you could either spend around $1200 (thus saving $3-$4K) and get the same quality of space, or move up and get a better place for $1500.

Also, as mentioned, no sales tax will translate into maybe a $500-1000 on average, and even more when you are buying bigger ticket items. Most things are also less expensive here. There are a lot of pubs and so forth where the menu in general is less than in the Bay Area, movie theaters, other attractions. On the whole, you won't save a ton of money but I think you'll either save a little and live in a better place, or save a few thousand and have about the same quality of life.

I think a real issue you need to consider is your potential future earnings and what possibilities you see in the Bay Area for career advancement, which will usually be more numerous than the Portland metro. But if you're in a situation where you've reached your earnings peak or close to, and it's just a questions of finding a stable position, then the move may make sense.

The thing that concerns me is you didn't mention anything about preference of weather, lifestyle, etc. You're making this entirely an economic issue, which doesn't seem wise to me at all for what it's worth. Or maybe you are familiar with both areas and indifferent to which place you live between the two.