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While I am not a Portland woman and am significantly older than you, I did grow up in the west and married a Texan. One thing I have noticed about Texan men is that they are quite friendly and forward.This is very true. This ranges from just friendly and outgoing forward to harassment type of forward. I have no idea where you might range in this but women from the west might find some of that Texan type of friendliness to be uncomfortably friendly or interpret it as harassment. You just have to read the lady's signals and respond accordingly.That's always been the case, no matter where one is. Not all men do and what might be considered ok in Texas might not be received well in the west. What I consider forward is having no qualms about approaching a woman to talk; having no problem inviting someone to dinner/lunch/etc.; but, obviously, one needs to read the signs...if a woman is not interested, she will make it very clear; if she is interested, again, she will make it clear. As far as friendly goes...opening her car door all the time; making sure to stand every time she leaves/enters a room; when walking, making sure I'm on the street side of the sidewalk, just normal friendly Texas manners.
One of my brothers lives in TX and when he got married, he went out of his way to run interference for me with a couple of his male guests in a rather obvious way. He told me that they were not really very nice to women and was protecting me from them. Again there are "not nice men" everywhere...maybe they're just more overt with their actions in Texas. A couple of others, he said were ok. I thought it a little funny because I was in my 40's at the time, but the men's behavior was also a little too much. Just a bit of a culture difference to be aware of.
This is totally empirical - but when I was in Portland, I didn't know any worthwhile men in their late 30s/early 40s who didn't have a girlfriend or wife if they wanted one.
I did know several bright, engaging, funny, attractive women in the same age range who had a devil of a time meeting a decent fellow.
Portland seems much harder for decent women...and I don't think the women I knew had unreasonable standards; they just wanted a guy who was somewhere between a hard-driving careerist creep and a loser-slacker.
One thing you may find challenging is that flirting just isn't part of the lingua franca in Portland. The regular harmless, meaningless, pleasant give-and-take between men and women that's so common in Texas or other parts of the South is nonexistent in PDX. And it's liable to make women suspicious or wary of you unless they've already gotten to know you.
I think if you're a basically good person, who genuinely likes women and enjoys their company, you'd be in great shape in Portland. The problem, as anywhere, is where to meet them...but it sounds like you have no qualms or social anxiety about putting yourself forward, which is half the battle.
This is totally empirical - but when I was in Portland, I didn't know any worthwhile men in their late 30s/early 40s who didn't have a girlfriend or wife if they wanted one.
I did know several bright, engaging, funny, attractive women in the same age range who had a devil of a time meeting a decent fellow.
What do you think is the reason(s)?
Portland seems much harder for decent women...and I don't think the women I knew had unreasonable standards; they just wanted a guy who was somewhere between a hard-driving careerist creep and a loser-slacker.
I've never heard that term for a career person before...cracks me up!!! I am a professional guy, but completely laid back with most everything.
One thing you may find challenging is that flirting just isn't part of the lingua franca in Portland.That's a shame, for both sexes! The regular harmless, meaningless, pleasant give-and-take between men and women that's so common in Texas or other parts of the South is nonexistent in PDX. And it's liable to make women suspicious or wary of you unless they've already gotten to know you.
I think if you're a basically good person, who genuinely likes women and enjoys their company, you'd be in great shape in Portland. The problem, as anywhere, is where to meet them So, where are the good places? Not that I'm the type of guy that goes to bars just to meet women...in fact, I hate doing that. However, if I'm having some good wine at a wine bar, listening to some live music somewhere, enjoying happy hour with some friends, etc...if I meet someone...great; if I don't, not a big deal. Believe me, I am not out to "meet someone" off the bat. ...but it sounds like you have no qualms or social anxiety about putting yourself forward, which is half the battle.
I've lived in Portland most of my adult life (20+ yrs), so while I'm currently interested in moving on, I can give you a pretty accurate assessment. This even though I'm married and father of four (I still notice a pretty woman!).
First, the "granola" label or stereotype in Portland is always hugely overstated. Yes its there, but drop it to 10% or so. The rest that people want to throw in that group are simply girls who love the outdoors - climbing, skiing, etc. Trust me, many of these girls are very attractive.
The "backwater" assessment is probably fair. There are quite a few people in the Portland area that never aspired to higher ed, haven't traveled much, and aren't looking to go anywhere, particularly in the east side areas mentioned.
The sorority princesses are definitely a factor. Not my cup of tea.
The "prada" segment has been growing rapidly. To me they just represent the growing element in Portland that I view as shallow, consumerist, profit/money motivated, etc. They usually claim to be eco friendly because they just bought a Toyota Prius (or a Highlander hybrid once they're married). Again not my type.
Be aware though, that there are a fair number of successful women who are active, athletic, health conscious, etc. Portland attracts these women at least as well as any other type!
Turn about is fair play, hts. I've never been to Texas, but my impression of the women there (reinforced by a photo posted on another thread) is that they are raised in the Jean Bonet "beauty queen" culture ("Let's all put our 5 year olds in pageants to see whose the "purdiest!"). As a result they are shallow, overly concerned about appearances, and tend to wear too much make up. They have no "substance".
This is hilarious. Much of what I've seen through my "So. Cal. glasses" (but have lived in plenty of other places, too, so I'm putting it all in context) is something others have seen, too. Good.
Our percentages are slightly different, but our observations resonate. At least we agree on the "outer Southeast" phenomenon and the growing sorority/Prada set.
One thing you may find challenging is that flirting just isn't part of the lingua franca in Portland. The regular harmless, meaningless, pleasant give-and-take between men and women that's so common in Texas or other parts of the South is nonexistent in PDX.
Nor in Seattle. This is ridiculous. You're right. The "code" is different, here. I don't see "off the cuff" banter in public places, unless it's an outright pick-up...or, God forbid, Amway.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GB1 One thing you may find challenging is that flirting just isn't part of the lingua franca in Portland. The regular harmless, meaningless, pleasant give-and-take between men and women that's so common in Texas or other parts of the South is nonexistent in PDX.
Nor in Seattle. This is ridiculous. You're right. The "code" is different, here. I don't see "off the cuff" banter in public places, unless it's an outright pick-up...or, God forbid, Amway.
This just cracks me up!!! That's one of the things I love about going out...is just talking to people...not necessarily with the intention of picking anyone up, but just having great conversation with interesting, and if I'm lucky, attractive women. How in the hell do people meet? I have this picture of people with blinders on, afraid to talk to anyone...God, forbid someone actually comes up to them!!! Just saying hello to someone sitting at a bar isn't out of the ordinary, whatsoever. If I move up there, I'll just have to preface every conversation with, "I'm from Texas." This cracks me up!!!
I did know several bright, engaging, funny, attractive women in the same age range who had a devil of a time meeting a decent fellow.
What do you think is the reason(s)?
I have some theories that could be summed up in the two words "arrested development," but would rather let some women weigh in.
So, where are the good places? Not that I'm the type of guy that goes to bars just to meet women...in fact, I hate doing that. However, if I'm having some good wine at a wine bar, listening to some live music somewhere, enjoying happy hour with some friends, etc...if I meet someone...great; if I don't, not a big deal. Believe me, I am not out to "meet someone" off the bat.
If you're a decent guy and don't dress or talk like an awkward, overgrown teenager, I suspect that you'll meet women through not-so-blind dates ("You're still coming over for dinner on Friday? Great. Bill's co-worker Connie will be there. It's not a blind date; I just thought you two would have a lot to talk about").
I did know several bright, engaging, funny, attractive women in the same age range who had a devil of a time meeting a decent fellow.
What do you think is the reason(s)?
I have some theories that could be summed up in the two words "arrested development," but would rather let some women weigh in.
This is a nationwide phenomenon, not limited to Portland. While some of it may be arrested social development - both on the female and male parts - a lot has to do with women in those age ranges usually have some experience and realize that settling for less than a man who really fits well with them is much worse than living alone. And she gets good at sizing up men for personal compatibility really quickly. It's the been there, done that, and don't want to do it again experience. Women have choices and don't want to settle. Simple as that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GB1
So, where are the good places? Not that I'm the type of guy that goes to bars just to meet women...in fact, I hate doing that. However, if I'm having some good wine at a wine bar, listening to some live music somewhere, enjoying happy hour with some friends, etc...if I meet someone...great; if I don't, not a big deal. Believe me, I am not out to "meet someone" off the bat.
If you're a decent guy and don't dress or talk like an awkward, overgrown teenager, I suspect that you'll meet women through not-so-blind dates ("You're still coming over for dinner on Friday? Great. Bill's co-worker Connie will be there. It's not a blind date; I just thought you two would have a lot to talk about").
This is the ideal way to meet. Little pressure, something in common, the other person is actually is known to a mutual friend. You're not wondering if he is an ax murderer on the make And if you don't click, so what, you had a nice dinner with friends.
Does anyone actually do this anymore?
As far as the culture shock comment, all I was trying to get at is that the random Texan man I've met in Texas seems much more on the make (whether they really are or not) than in other places and can be taken as something more than it probably is in a different culture. Just something to be aware of in a new place.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GB1 I did know several bright, engaging, funny, attractive women in the same age range who had a devil of a time meeting a decent fellow.
What do you think is the reason(s)?
I have some theories that could be summed up in the two words "arrested development," but would rather let some women weigh in.
This is a nationwide phenomenon, not limited to Portland. While some of it may be arrested social development - both on the female and male parts - a lot has to do with women in those age ranges usually have some experience and realize that settling for less than a man who really fits well with them is much worse than living alone. And she gets good at sizing up men for personal compatibility really quickly. It's the been there, done that, and don't want to do it again experience. Women have choices and don't want to settle. As do men. I'm not going to settle for anyone that isn't a perfect fit for me, whatsoever. But, I'm not out looking for someone, for the sake of just being with someone, either.Simple as that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by GB1 So, where are the good places? Not that I'm the type of guy that goes to bars just to meet women...in fact, I hate doing that. However, if I'm having some good wine at a wine bar, listening to some live music somewhere, enjoying happy hour with some friends, etc...if I meet someone...great; if I don't, not a big deal. Believe me, I am not out to "meet someone" off the bat.
If you're a decent guy and don't dress or talk like an awkward, overgrown teenager, I suspect that you'll meet women through not-so-blind dates ("You're still coming over for dinner on Friday? Great. Bill's co-worker Connie will be there. It's not a blind date; I just thought you two would have a lot to talk about").
This is the ideal way to meet. Little pressure, something in common, the other person is actually is known to a mutual friend. You're not wondering if he is an ax murderer on the make Never wondered if someone I was talking to in a bar/restaurant was an axe murderer...And if you don't click, so what, you had a nice dinner with friends.
Does anyone actually do this anymore? Not as often as people should.
As far as the culture shock comment, all I was trying to get at is that the random Texan man I've met in Texas seems much more on the make (whether they really are or not) than in other places and can be taken as something more than it probably is in a different culture. You're may have a point...I'm just friendly and outgoing, by nature. But, if someone thinks I'm on the "make" as you put it, then it's really their problem, not mine. I'm going to be who I am, regardless. Just something to be aware of in a new place.
Tesaje: This is the ideal way to meet. Little pressure, something in common, the other person is actually is known to a mutual friend. You're not wondering if he is an ax murderer on the make Tahoma:Never wondered if someone I was talking to in a bar/restaurant was an axe murderer...And if you don't click, so what, you had a nice dinner with friends.
That's pretty much the basic difference between being male and female in dating. Many women DO worry (granted, a distant worry but not an illogical or unfounded one) about that.
One of my dearest friends is a transplant from Houston, and I have to say that his manner initially put me off. The slick pleasantries and small, sort of flirting flatteries struck me as incredibly superficial and untrustworthy - very glib. Eventually, of course, I came to know him better and to realize that was just social "lubrication" - his way of trying to put people at ease, which had exactly the opposite effect.
Just keep in mind that isn't the cultural norm here (or really anywhere on this side of the Rockies). Just as you are who you are, the culture here is the culture here, and neither is necessarily bad, just easy to misinterpret.
I've seen many new posters (especially people from the south and east) say the northwest people are cold and unfriendly - it's not my experience here at all (and I am not a native, but a long-time transplant). It is a more laid-back, calm culture, though.
Last edited by PNW-type-gal; 03-03-2008 at 09:56 AM..
Reason: typos
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And if you don't click, so what, you had a nice dinner with friends.
