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I really don't have much to add to your post. I agree with most of what you said. Most institutions are designed to breed the "seeker" spirit out of you and make you conform. Independent though is threatening to institutions. You are only allowed to succeed within the parameters they've designed. There is a spiritual aspect that I could get into but won't. Many people are living a life others designed for them but don't realize their thoughts aren't their own.
I really don't have much to add to your post. I agree with most of what you said. Most institutions are designed to breed the "seeker" spirit out of you and make you conform. Independent though is threatening to institutions. You are only allowed to succeed within the parameters they've designed. There is a spiritual aspect that I could get into but won't. Many people are living a life others designed for them but don't realize their thoughts aren't their own.
This is good insight. As one of my projects in grad school, I had to deconstruct my entire life. I began to see how I was enculturated through so many things: The conscious and unconscious beliefs of my parents (which were acted out, but not spoken about), the trainings from my church, the trainings from the schools, the culture all-together, etc., etc.) It was enlightening and disorienting. I went through a period when I had "no beliefs" (per se) . . . and then I began to compile some more independent beliefs - we are always shaped by environment, so it's impossible to have truly independent beliefs.
I like what you said about enlightening and disorienting. Someone mentioned narcissism. There are those who believe that narcissists are empty at their core, which is why they need constant attention or "supply". It shows them that they actually exist. I had a narcissist constantly complain to others about how much I ignored them, and I would always think, "Why is it so important to you that I acknowledge your existence?" The funny thing is, this person went out of their way to torment me. OF COURSE I am going to avoid you. I found it fascinating that this person seemed to hate me but was desperate for my attention. Going back to what you said about disorienting....
If you believe that narcissists are empty at their core (meaning, they have no identity...or at least they believe they have no identity), then it makes perfect sense why they behave the way they do. They have no idea who they really are and don't have the emotional maturity to figure it out. They never cultivated their own interests outside of the indoctrination they received from their family/social groups. Once you're an adult you can choose who you want to be, but since they grew up in settings that didn't allow or teach that, they are directionless as adults. So getting attention from others, be it positive or negative, validates their existence. "I live because you see me."
The thread is about "foreclosing early." Someone responded with a post about narcissists, and now someone else is discussing narcissists - this personality disorder (made up by psychiatrists, my belief) has nothing to do with foreclosing early - although a couple of "narcissists" I know of did indeed "foreclose early" - but I think it is mutually exclusive (and this is all in theory, as I don't believe there is a discreet "thing" such as a narcissist).
People are too complex for these labels - although they can be helpful shortcuts for mean people, *******s, selfish people, people with character defects, criminals, etc. - That is another subject, though.
It does baffle me how many people I know seem disinclined and disinterested in learning new things and stepping out of their comfort zone/stretching themselves.
I would die of boredom if I were not constantly learning new skills (useful or not), challenging myself, etc.
I don't think that makes me better or worse than anyone else. Just different.
It can be boring to hang out with people who are all same old same old and have no new experiences, goals, dreams, etc, to share.
But I am well aware that other people do not exist merely to entertain me.
I also do know quite a few people who are invested heavily in personal growth, various passions. Fun people to be around.
It does baffle me how many people I know seem disinclined and disinterested in learning new things and stepping out of their comfort zone/stretching themselves.
I would die of boredom if I were not constantly learning new skills (useful or not), challenging myself, etc.
I don't think that makes me better or worse than anyone else. Just different.
It can be boring to hang out with people who are all same old same old and have no new experiences, goals, dreams, etc, to share.
But I am well aware that other people do not exist merely to entertain me.
I also do know quite a few people who are invested heavily in personal growth, various passions. Fun people to be around.
From psychospiritual perspective (and this was the basis of the teachings I received on the subject), personal development DOES matter - because we are not just here for ourselves - we affect other people, and the evolution of humanity - so it's kind of a big deal.
From a karmic perspective, if we incarnate to learn things and we "foreclose early," we are not fulfilling our own blueprints for our lives . . . it's kind of a "waste" from that perspective to be born and not develop yourself . . . you not only hurt yourself, but if you are a parent, you are negatively impacting your children - and from a field theory perspective, we are all always impacting each other.
That's one of the reasons I like to read and post on forums - because doing so stretches me - I think the internet is amazing for that. So many things we all know now that we would have never known before (just Facebook on it's own has been amazing for that - and all of the other social media platforms, as well).
I would surmise that those people who say they "don't do Facebook" (there are a bunch of them that love to announce it - I have seen threads here) - I would speculate those people "foreclosed early" in their personal development - why else would you not welcome INFORMATION . . . ???
When I was in graduate school, a professor used a phrase "foreclose early" to describe people who stop their psychological/spiritual development at an early stage. This was illuminating to me - I thought of some of the people closest to me - family and friends, and concluded that 95% of them had "foreclosed early."
I was a "seeker" from a young age (early teens) and have never stopped. I have forsaken "regular" life situations that would have provided for security in exchange for living in my truth. I have lost lots of relationships as a result of this. I have always been a little conflicted about it - *wanted* the benefits of being conventional, but was not willing to give up what it would cost me in personal development to do that.
I think this concept should be taught in elementary school - however, if it were, we would not have a world full of "TV people" - people who settle for any number of things (poor relationships, poor marriages, jobs they hate, etc.) - and the government would probably not like it very well, as all of the drones would be out doing their own thing and creating a much more interesting "reality."
If you take into account the bolded text, it can explain how someone who is on a steady journey of psychological and spiritual development can actually appear to the population at large as an "early forecloser" where in reality they are just the opposite.
You start to develop a deepening sense of calm and "zen" as higher levels of understanding and development lead you to eschew much of what society has to offer (T.V., sports, trivia, sensational news, advertising, etc., etc.) and start to focus, purify and "customize" your interests, pursuits, studies and curiosities.
You actually can wind up talking less (some of the most deeply developed people I know don't actually speak much), and losing common interests with friends, family, co-workers, etc. You have no idea what the latest hot movie is, no clue who the latest actors/actresses are. Sports?...no clue...
You can actually start to make groups and individuals who rely heavily on societal content as a social binder nervous and uncomfortable with you, and can be shunned or otherwise "shut out" from these individuals or groups if they get too jittery.
Yes, and narcissists have "foreclosed early", which is what I was illustrating. We can debate whether or not it's a disorder. It's not something people truly understand unless they've been through it, and since most narcissists don't believe they have a problem, they will not seek treatment. It logically follows that there will be a lack of scholarship on the matter.
Thiss is the "Psychology" forum so I think it's applicable to the topic at hand. Most people who are knowledgeable about narcissism agree that these individuals are mentally stunted.
If you take into account the bolded text, it can explain how someone who is on a steady journey of psychological and spiritual development can actually appear to the population at large as an "early forecloser" where in reality they are just the opposite.
You start to develop a deepening sense of calm and "zen" as higher levels of understanding and development lead you to eschew much of what society has to offer (T.V., sports, trivia, sensational news, advertising, etc., etc.) and start to focus, purify and "customize" your interests, pursuits, studies and curiosities.
You actually can wind up talking less (some of the most deeply developed people I know don't actually speak much), and losing common interests with friends, family, co-workers, etc. You have no idea what the latest hot movie is, no clue who the latest actors/actresses are. Sports?...no clue...
You can actually start to make groups and individuals who rely heavily on societal content as a social binder nervous and uncomfortable with you, and can be shunned or otherwise "shut out" from these individuals or groups if they get too jittery.
These are such important points . . . when you let go of convention, you can question yourself from time-to-time - it is good to have this perspective on what is really taking place. Long ago, I lost interest in "popular culture." I don't go to Hollywood movies, etc. It alienates you from those who thrive on such things.
What you said about starting to ". . . focus, purify, and 'customize' your interests . . . " is so key - I truly resonate with this and it is what I *think* I am doing
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I found it fascinating that this person seemed to hate me but was desperate for my attention. Going back to what you said about disorienting....
