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I think that gaslighting tends to have a nefarious intent. It's a form of manipulation used to control another party.
When I read the OP's description, I do not get the sense that their friend is acting nefariously, nor do I get the sense they are trying to manipulate.
If the friend had a habit of insulting OP's appearance and then accused OP of being overly sensitive when they explain to the friend that it's hurtful, that might be a form of gaslighting.
Right, I don't think he is trying to be mean. Just a little clueless. He used to criticize my appearance because I am into being natural and health-conscious. I don't dye my hair or use makeup, and don't wear high heels. I try to be strong and healthy. He likes it when women try to look sexy and young. I don't think old women should try to look young. We should wear nice clothes, in whatever style we like, but trying to look sexy and young just does not work, in my opinion. And I never dressed that way when I was young anyhow.
But it is his opinion, and I have known it all along. He has a right to like women to look a certain way, and I have a right to not want to look that way. We both have agreed on that. But it came out again in this recent incident.
Perhaps this is his form of empathizing. He is relating that he also experienced being treated as being invisible. It also seems he feels how one is treated is in a person's control. Rather than taking offense, I think you should question his beliefs. So, when someone treats you as invisible, you don't consider that rude regardless of appearance?
I don't think it is gaslighting because he may not consider being treated as being invisible as rudeness, i.e. that it's fine to treat someone that way if they are old, overweight, etc. If you want to be treated differently doing something differently may get resuts, i.e., being more pleasant, attractive, clever, funny, etc. If this is his belief, it isn't gaslighting since he doesn't see it your way. You are not sympatico with one another.
The reason I was ignored in this very minor incident had nothing to do with how I look. The guy was in a hurry to tell my friend something, so he interrupted without saying "excuse me." Very minor. Probably what hurt me much more was my friend's attempt at being helpful.
Right, I don't think he is trying to be mean. Just a little clueless. He used to criticize my appearance because I am into being natural and health-conscious. I don't dye my hair or use makeup, and don't wear high heels. I try to be strong and healthy. He likes it when women try to look sexy and young. I don't think old women should try to look young. We should wear nice clothes, in whatever style we like, but trying to look sexy and young just does not work, in my opinion. And I never dressed that way when I was young anyhow.
But it is his opinion, and I have known it all along. He has a right to like women to look a certain way, and I have a right to not want to look that way. We both have agreed on that. But it came out again in this recent incident.
Sharing his opinion about women, in general, is one thing. Maybe he's a tad bit superficial, if not a little sleazy. I have an acquaintance like that who has pretty strong opinions about how women should behave and what he expects to get out of relationships with women. He's one of those men can't be friends with women, all they truly want is to sleep with them types.
But if it's not a continuous string of insults against you followed up by remarks like "you're too sensitive", then I would not consider it gaslighting or emotionally abusive.
Sharing his opinion about women, in general, is one thing. Maybe he's a tad bit superficial, if not a little sleazy.
But if it's not a continuous string of insults against you followed up by remarks like "you're too sensitive", then I would not consider it gaslighting or emotionally abusive.
No it is not constant insults. I have told him I don't want to be put down for looking natural, and he understands. His taste in women is a little sleazy, that is true, but we have other things in common.
No it is not constant insults. I have told him I don't want to be put down for looking natural, and he understands. His taste in women is a little sleazy, that is true, but we have other things in common.
Just so long as you draw that line firmly that it will never be okay for him to treat you that way or openly judge you that way, then I don't see any harm in it. Some people are sleaze balls, but can have other endearing qualities.
Just so long as you draw that line firmly that it will never be okay for him to treat you that way or openly judge you that way, then I don't see any harm in it. Some people are sleaze balls, but can have other endearing qualities.
Yes. He and I each have things we don't like about the other, but we also have things we like to do together. We are different and we both know it, but neither one of us is interested in searching the world for the perfect partner.
As long as he gives me enough time and space to be alone, or with other friends, I think it's ok.
Right, I don't think he is trying to be mean. Just a little clueless. He used to criticize my appearance because I am into being natural and health-conscious. I don't dye my hair or use makeup, and don't wear high heels. I try to be strong and healthy. He likes it when women try to look sexy and young. I don't think old women should try to look young. We should wear nice clothes, in whatever style we like, but trying to look sexy and young just does not work, in my opinion. And I never dressed that way when I was young anyhow.
But it is his opinion, and I have known it all along. He has a right to like women to look a certain way, and I have a right to not want to look that way. We both have agreed on that. But it came out again in this recent incident.
Men in general are visually stimulated. If you're taking to this friend and an attractive woman walks by, you can track his eye movement following this woman. Men do this involuntary and the "smart ones" catch themselves and control where to look.
Women, on the other hand, build relationships through talking. I better stop here for fear risking the wrath of women through generalization
Men also tend to be problem solvers. So while you're talking to him, he's thinking what's the problem and what is the solution and is eager to offer that solution. But this will often come across to woman that telling them what to do and they resent it very much. They would rather you just listen, nod occasionally, and not say a word unless asked.
If you watch closely, that's what a smart Dad does, listen to his daughter/wife complain for hours without saying a word
In this case, he identified the "root cause" of problem from his personal experience. In eagerly offering you the solution, he brings up this "root cause" which comes across to you as a criticism of your personal appearance.
In short, Men are from Mars. We just wired differently.
Men in general are visually stimulated. If you're taking to this friend and an attractive woman walks by, you can track his eye movement following this woman. Men do this involuntary and the "smart ones" catch themselves and control where to look.
Women, on the other hand, build relationships through talking. I better stop here for fear risking the wrath of women through generalization
Men also tend to be problem solvers. So while you're talking to him, he's thinking what's the problem and what is the solution and is eager to offer that solution. But this will often come across to woman that telling them what to do and they resent it very much.
In this case, he identified the "root cause" of problem from his personal experience. In eagerly offering you the solution, he brings up this "root cause" which comes across to you as a criticism of your personal appearance.
In short, Men are from Mars. We just wired differently.
Oh yes, completely agree. I expect men to look at sexy young women and I don't get angry at them because of it. They really can't help it -- they are biologically programmed to impregnate females. Hopefully they have the self control to not act on it, but they can't help looking.
And also true, men are, in general, not the greatest at listening and empathizing. The male-female psychology books are helpful. Women talk to each other to create bonds, men talk to impress others. Especially when talking to women, men are trying to impress with their wisdom, knowledge, and sense of humor.
When we women expect men to act like women we create frustration for ourselves. We need to have female friends also.
I have a friend who I think gaslights me, but he doesn't seem at all aware of it. For example, I told him I thought someone was impolite to me and treated me like I was invisible. My friend could have said "Yeah I know how you feel, it sucks when people aren't polite." But NO, that is not what he said. First, he denied the person had been rude to me. Then he said the following:
"I used to experience that a lot, people would act like I was invisible. So I decided to do something about it, to improve myself so I would be respected. First, I lost weight, so I looked better. Then I bought some better quality clothes. And it worked, I was not treated like was invisible anymore."
I am NOT overweight, and I think my clothes are ok. But I felt like he was saying it was somehow my fault if I thought that person was impolite to me.
Then I said "What do you mean? Are you saying this happened because of how I look?"
And his answer was "No, not at all. I was talking about myself, I was not talking about you."
He then went on to more examples of how people can be treated like they are invisible because they look old and have grey hair, etc.
He was saying things that made me feel bad, and then denying that anything he said was a criticism of me.
I said, several times, that I do NOT get treated like I'm invisible all the time. Only sometimes, and it bothers me. It was not possible to explain any of this to him.
What kind of person does it sound like he is? I think he is, at least, very much in his own world. I think he is not able to understand how another person is interpreting his messages.
Might want to re-evaluate the relationship. Person sounds like a creep.
I think that gaslighting tends to have a nefarious intent. It's a form of manipulation used to control another party.
When I read the OP's description, I do not get the sense that their friend is acting nefariously, nor do I get the sense they are trying to manipulate.
If the friend had a habit of insulting OP's appearance and then accused OP of being overly sensitive when they explain to the friend that it's hurtful, that might be a form of gaslighting.
Gaslighting tends to be a behavior of manipulating someone’s view of reality. In the OP’s scenario, a gaslighter would likely act like he doesn’t even believe the OP is being ignored and is just acting like it because she’s a narcissist who wants everyone to pay attention to her. In other words, he would turn it around on her to make it seem like it is her fault.
In the OP’s case, her friend just talked about what he did to improve his situation. My guess is that I am not sure he knows why people are ignoring the OP and was just talking about what he did for himself. I don’t think he was trying to be malicious in saying that older people tend to be ignored. That is more likely.
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