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I'll tip my hat to you, your responses are well thought out and written. I too don't much care for unsubstantiated accusations, that's poor form and makes for a weak argument (y'know, the "I was told" or, "I heard from someone" slant). And of course, I've defended unpopular positions myself based on my own experiences and so respect your doing it.
But your last line, well, it just sort of begged for a response. I think fraud flies at companies of all shapes and sizes, particularly the bigger ones.
All this is a moot point anyway because Angie's List will switch from a subscriber based revenue model to an advertising based one soon enough. Their subscriber rate isn't building in a healthy way (they keep dropping the price in an attempt to maintain subscriber levels all while claiming healthy growth), they have a pretty credible lawsuit in play against them by their shareholders and are being investigated for securities fraud. Their service concept is viable though and eventually they'll be acquired by a larger company who will make it free to join and generate their revenue from click-through ads. And once it's free, once more people are willing to join it's inherent value will only grow.
I'm not sure if anyone realizes it, but AL sends out a localized magazine to subscribers. It largely ends up in my junk mail pile, because it is multiple pages full of colorful advertisements. It makes those thick coupon books you get in the mail look thin by comparison.
My point is they are already on an advertising revenue model. Companies pay a decent buck for the ads that are sent in the magazine.
The magazine is legitimately that -- they publish horror stories about local companies, highlight ones that have gotten recent spates of bad press.... individual horror stories sort of like the 5-on-your-side bits that WRAL does.
They also have useful how-to articles for homeowners. Nothing that you couldn't learn elsewhere on the web of course, but legitimate authors making legit contributions to the magazine. Its just another magazine that happens to be chock full of ads.
AL's advertisement model is transparent and nothing dicey. And the website does not put the advertisements in your way or influence your research about companies. I suspect that's why they do what they do with the printed magazine.
To the OP, I have used AL a few times and been happy with the companies I've found through there. I got my membership during one of the home shows at the Raleigh downtown convention center which I think was discount to $15 or $20 for a year +. So, if you haven't signed up already, you may hold off a month or so and go to one of the home shows - they seems to have them every month or so during the spring and summer.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYC2RDU
I have never hired a contractor to do any work without properly vetting them, including checking references and having them display more than a basic competency for the job. I think that for most people the same is true, at least in my experiences.
NYC2RDU - sending you a PM because I don't want to hijack this tread but have a question about your comment here.
A lot of nonsense has been put forth here about AL, for example them taking bribes for "rankings", giving rank preference to advertisers, getting paid for removal, etc. I think people have confused them with Google because that exact kind of thing is part of Google's business model.
There are also legitmate concerns that can't be swept away by attacking the source ("Consumer reports charges for their services as well.")
Really wasn't attacking CR per se, was addressing something the poster said in his message.
In the link you posted: " I opened a dispute on the Angie’s List site, where I noticed that a couple other consumers had similar problems".
Umm.. are we to believe that there were no problems that this customer could have read BEFORE signing on with the contractor? What it sounds like here is that the person went ahead with the company, and only went to Angie's List to do their homework after they got duped. If only they had been a member and used the service the way it was intended, their issue could have been avoided.
That's not a way I would recommend using the site. As I said, use existing reviews to choose who you do business with. The good ones will have a long standing record of verified reviews, and often have updates over a long-term (like a year or two after the work was done). With even a small amount of diligence, it won't take the average homeowner with any reasonable reading comprehension skills very long to understand how to use the site effectively.
I'm not even suggesting anyone should completely supplant word of mouth with Angie's List, I'm saying you can supplement it with AL if that's how you choose to use the service.
The NYT and any other news agency benefits by posting articles that stir up controversy. That's what journalism is all about. It draws people to the news source where they can see lots of ads, just like I got flooded with United Airlines ads when I clicked on the link you posted. I find the Angie's List methodology to be a lot more honest, as an overall system of doing business, than click bait articles.
And if you do get all your referrals from C-D, where do you go to complain or post negative feedback if things go wrong? Against policy to do it here. A lot of the real scoop here transpires in DMs where there's no audience for the information.
Once again though, those without first hand experience with Angie's List aren't sticking to the OP's question.
Once again though, those without first hand experience with Angie's List aren't sticking to the OP's question.
Here is part of the OP's original post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myghost
Just wondering, as a new-ish home-owner in Cary if this is something I should be doing?
How is raising possible concerns about AL not sticking to the original questions?
I do not have first hand experience with AL. I am fortunate enough to have earned a professional license in one of the trades and have enough DIY experience that I usually do everything myself, so I have no interest in AL. However, there are consumer groups and others who have raised concerns. Clark Howard had a very pointed piece on AL. Consumers interested in her services should be aware of how the business has changed since the early days, and use that information to make informed decisions.
I completely disagree that Angie's List has any real value. This is because business owners can ask Angie's List to remove negative reviews. I subscribed last year because we were doing a huge yard remodel and some interior remodel work. I found that very large companies had reviews, but not enough of the small ones to make it really worth the cost. I ended up using several other free sites for better information. And then Angie's List starts calling and emailing you to try and get you to leave more reviews. So I tried to do my part and started leaving reviews for the companies and contractors that we were using. The good reviews went up without a hitch. But the first time I left a very negative review for a company (a well deserved F rating), the business was able to get Angie's List to completely remove the review. Angie's List gave me a reason that was completely bogus. The company was trying to say that I had never used their service. I emailed to Angie's List copies of the receipts and emails with the owner of the company. They still removed my new review based on the company's word alone.
You're much better off using other free sources for referrals and reviews. For a total project cost of close to $90k, with more than a dozen different contractors and companies used, I didn't pick a single one based off of Angie's List. I used them to help narrow down fence companies, but ultimately went with one that had good reviews from a forum specific to my town (and was not listed on Angie's List). I picked our pool company, electrician, shed company, and architect based on recommendations from this forum. I got our wall guy from a neighbor who had work done that I really liked. Angie's List was not worth the money I spent on the subscription.
How is raising possible concerns about AL not sticking to the original questions?
I do not have first hand experience with AL. I am fortunate enough to have earned a professional license in one of the trades and have enough DIY experience that I usually do everything myself, so I have no interest in AL. However, there are consumer groups and others who have raised concerns. Clark Howard had a very pointed piece on AL. Consumers interested in her services should be aware of how the business has changed since the early days, and use that information to make informed decisions.
I don't think there's a problem with raising concerns about AL as long as they are accompanied by the disclaimer that they are conjecture formed without any direct experience with AL. And if I were the OP I would be a little leery of feedback coming from anyone that admitted (a) they have no experience with it (b) they have no interest in it, yet at the same time (c) they are interested enough to chime in with strong opinions about it. But that's only if I were the OP, he's free to come to his own conclusions.
. Angie's List gave me a reason that was completely bogus. The company was trying to say that I had never used their service. I emailed to Angie's List copies of the receipts and emails with the owner of the company. They still removed my new review based on the company's word alone.
I would have felt compelled to send Angie's List a copy of the invoice from the company and push matters. If a company has done us wrong I believe we have somewhat of a social responsibility to not let them get away with it. Angie's List had their word saying they never met you, but nothing from you to prove you'd done business with them.
Look at this this way, if you found them through a referral here, and posted your negative experience here, your message could have been deleted without any complaints from the company because it would have violated TOS.
So in that sense, Angie's List still gives you a better voice as a consumer.
But the website does prompt you to add reviews, even if its a company that you only searched for, and I don't know if there's a way to turn that off. It's a minor inconvenience though, especially if you're like me and you really only login to the site once in a while.
Nope. I got emails asking for reviews of merchants I had searched but never used approximately once per week. I emailed them and asked them to stop. Next thing I know, I'm getting a phone call from Angie's List asking me to help review merchants I never used. That happened once, and I told them to take me off the phone call list.
One more reason I didn't renew.
The first year after we moved in, AL had a value. Yes, we asked for referrals from our neighbors, but this is a new construction development. New people to the area who asked the builder who to call, so we kept getting the same names (who we usually found to be pricey). Our realtor and AL gave me some alternatives, and some were good choices. Others were worthless, and for reasons I stated earlier in this thread, I believe that the reviews are skewed towards showing primarily excellent reviews. There simply are not enough B and C graded reviews for that site to be statically correct.
Last edited by Jkgourmet; 03-01-2014 at 10:04 AM..
We needed a plumber for our generator installation. We called 7 plumbers with "A" ratings from AL and only 1 of them bothered to call back. That was our one and only experience with AL. We're very happy we didn't buy a subscription because what is the point if you don't get a call back? We're perfectly happy with word of mouth or following up on recommendations provided here. (FTR, the subscription is my FIL's and even he is unhappy with AL.)
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