Chapel Hill School Experience (+and-) (Raleigh, Carrboro: apartment complexes, house, theater)

[BuckeyeAlum]

Hello,

I have posted before about our decision to leave CO with my husband's job (headquartered in RTP), and received great feed back while we weighed all decisions. The time has come for us to really begin the school search as a move is most certainly in our near future. Ideally I like to tour schools, but with 3 children at home, I am betting I won't get a chance until we get there. Here in CO my kids are currently in the #1 rated school in the district, AND I find it full of fluff, dittos and smart kids who test well and teachers who do not teach. (As an educator myself, I am just floored at the cookie cutter way of teaching here)

I am not looking for the "BEST" school, I want to hear from parents who see innovative teachers asking their children to think with an expectation for hard work ethic, hands on Science and Math and a school that offers opportunities from the average child to your typical "above average first born". I know there is no perfect school, but there has got to be some better options than we are seeing here in CO.

(I worked at a 90% free and reduced lunch school in Ohio, strong educated teachers and good Admins make all the difference in the world.)

Why Chapel Hill? I am trying to avoid urban sprawl, cookie cutter homes and currently have 5 chickens, apple trees and beautiful gardens in my backyard. (and a horse that will need boarding unless we can find affordable acreage) We bike and coming from a family of Professors myself I enjoy living in a college town and the opportunities that come with it. (both good and bad I know) The Magnet schools really appeal to me in the Raleigh area, but considering we have missed all deadlines, and have a slim chance of getting in I think avoiding Wake County Schools is the right thing to do right now. I suppose that could change. My kids are currently elementary school aged with middle school on the horizon.

Thank you, I appreciate your advice and time from afar!

[CHTransplant]

Originally Posted by BuckeyeAlum

I am not looking for the "BEST" school, I want to hear from parents who see innovative teachers asking their children to think with an expectation for hard work ethic, hands on Science and Math and a school that offers opportunities from the average child to your typical "above average first born".

"Average" students are not tremendously well-served in Chapel Hill, especially at the high school level (it's much less of an issue in elementary school). They are trapped between the "special needs" students at the low end of the academic spectrum, and the high achievers at the other end (for whom Chapel Hill has much to offer). The district applies many of its resources to those groups, while the "average" kids are left to just get through.

[poppydog]

I have really liked having my kids at Carrboro Elementary. There are some worksheets and not as much hands on as we would like but there is a lot of hands on--we'd just like it all the time. There is a fantastic art teacher there who does really amazing theater work with the 4th & 5th graders. They do one big stage production each year and ALL kids who want to can find a role either as part of the acting ensemble (think munchkins in the Wizard of Oz) or behind the scenes. The big roles are auditions and are assigned but everybody who wants to can be in it. My kid has just loved this.

For middle school I have heard nothing but good stuff about Smith and would send my kid there w/o hesitation. However she is following her older sister to a smaller charter school. The charter is fine but does not have the resources that CHCCS schools do and it's not as challenging academically. It's fine and kids have college acceptances to UNC, NC State, etc, but not Harvard, not that I want or expect my kids to go to Harvard. The charter has been a pretty good fit for my older daughter who is a little quirky and naive and suffers from anxiety (kind of potentially crippling traits for traditional middle school).

For high school, all of them score well. We're zoned for Chapel Hill High and they've had some administration turnover for the past several years and I've heard more complaints about CHHS than the others. Most people seem to really like East. It's always on the top of the heap with test results. The folks I know who have kids there have been very pleased. If I was picking one I might choose Carrboro. It's the newest and smallest and I have heard good things about the arts programs there. I dont know anyone with kids there though.

[CHTransplant]

I'd echo what poppydog said regarding Carrboro and Smith - we've had kids at both and enjoyed both schools.

For high school we've had kids go to both East and CHHS, due to a change in boundaries for each school a few years ago. I was much more impressed by East than CHHS, which as poppydog noted has had some issues with its administration and a fair bit of teacher turnover.

[michgc]

I think Chapel Hill Schools are a mixed bag. As CHTransplant said, the district seems to serve the VERY SMART students very well (and by VERY SMART I mean kids who test at least 97% on standardized tests above their current grade level). Those students are very academically challenged, as well as segregated in a program called LEAP. I don't have special needs students, so can't really comment much on that, but the district seems to cater a great deal to the underprivileged population - probably trying to get them up to speed academically and to improve their test scores. There are many special programs for these communities such as special parent nights, AVID, buses to apartment complexes that house the low-income students for evening activities, etc. I also agree with CHTransplant that the "average" (who really is above average, but not a superstar) student are less well served here.

Problems with the district:
--There is little flexibility in curriculum. Since they have adopted Common Core, the classes must follow prescribed guidelines. So teachers don't have much room for creativity.
--Rules that are set at the district level seem to be set in stone without much leeway at the school level. For example, to take a compacted math class, one must reach a certain score on the state test (generally either a 90% or 95%). If a student does not achieve that score then you can challenge the school till the cows come home, but it won't change a darn thing. ONLY THE TEST SCORE MATTERS - no teacher input, no classroom work, nothing - one test score from one day is all that matters.
--There is little separation based on ability unless a student is in compacted math or language arts classes or LEAP. Therefore, if your student does not have the above 90% or 95% score on the aforementioned state test, he will be put in a general ed. class with students of all abilities - from those who scored 89% on state tests to those who scored 29% on state tests. If this happens, there will be very little differentiation in the classroom, and your child who scored 89% will be taught to the lowest common denominator in the classroom. Ask me how I know.
--At the lower grades, for VERY SMART kids, there is some differentiation and challenge but not much, as they cut gifted services starting this year. There is one gifted teacher per school so she is spread thin. As anywhere else, some teachers are better than others at differentiating, and are, in general, better overall than other teachers. Which leads me to the next point.
--The legislation coming from the state level is moving in the wrong direction in regards to education. Teacher pay being THE LOWEST in the country will only ensure that as time moves on we will start to see more of the less-qualified teachers rather than the better ones.
--Not too many offerings for after-school activities at the elementary level - mostly geared toward kids who get aftercare.
--School district is difficult to get a hold of - telephone is answered by voice mail as well as at the middle school.

Positives with the district:
--Class size is reasonable. Lower grades (K-2) generally seem to have about 22 kids per grade. Upper elem. grades seem to have about 25 kids +-.
--Lower grades classes get a full-time assistant teacher! Upper grades (3-5) have one assistant per every 4 classes. (Up through last year, there was a teaching assistant for every 2 classes in the upper grades, but this was a victim of budget cuts this year, along with the gifted teacher cuts).
--School gardens in some of the elementary schools (and Sewell has farm animals!) are a nice addition for learning.
--Typical extra activities in the school like STEM nights, field days, International nights, etc., although not much different than most school districts.

For a well-funded school district this size of only 3 high schools, 4 middle schools, and 11 elementary schools, I expected there to be more flexibility, more creativity, more personal service, and more activities. We came from a VERY LARGE school district with over 100 elementary schools and 25 high schools that gave more autonomy at the school level, had many more extracurricular activities, and a human person answered the phone when I called.

Obviously, many school districts across the nation are facing budget cuts, Common Core guidelines, too much testing, more diverse student bodies, etc. For the high taxes we pay here and the relatively small size of the district, I expected Chapel Hill Carrboro City Schools to handle these challenges much better than they do.

[poppydog]

FTR, Carrboro Elementary is an old school, built in the 50s, and a Title I school. It's also a dual language (Spanish) magnet with both dual language and traditional tracks. My kids have been in the traditional track although they do take Spanish as a special. They have a pretty good Spanish teacher this year, too. I think they definitely work at offering opportunities to all kids regardless of socio-economic status or ability. I have felt like I had the opportunity to really get to know the teachers and admin and all have been very approachable. It is NOT new and flashy, but it does have an awesome playground and apparently is one of the only elementary schools in the district with an auditorium. I guess they don't build them like that any more. Makes it great for the theater productions. The student population is about 50% white, 25-30% hispanic, 20-25% black, asian, etc.

[CHTransplant]

Originally Posted by michgc

For the high taxes we pay here ... I expected Chapel Hill Carrboro City Schools to ...

This, to me, is the nub of the matter - whether folks view the cost as commensurate with the value being delivered.

In my personal view, it is not.

[poppydog]

I have absolutely no complaints at all about the taxes we pay and the services delivered as far as schools. In our limited experience they have done a fine job. Is it my ideal school? In some ways no, but in many ways it's more than I would have expected.

I haven't had any of the issues michgc has had, but I just have not been in those situations, really.

I don't have any reason to call the district (the people at my school have always been very helpful when I've called) and the teachers at CES have certainly been willing to go out of their way to challenge my kid. I have not pushed to have her in gifted math, though. She is in gifted reading and is very happy with her 89% (or something like that) on the math assessments. They just started doing quarterly (or maybe it's 3) online assessments a year which I think my kid likes better than the old bubble sheets. Still have to do EOGs, though.

We have clubs a couple of times a year after school. Right now my kid is in a creative writing club that meets on Mondays. I think she skipped clubs earlier in the year because she was doing the play which had rehearsals after school from Nov/Dec through Jan. She also did Girls on the Run after school. That was more than enough for us. We like plenty of down time.

People all have their individual wants and needs and I try to look on the positive side of things. I really like the diversity in my kids' school and I think it's got a great community feel. We just got done with the school fair May 2nd which is a huge event. Most people I know have been very happy with their kid's experience at Carrboro Elementary, but there have been some complainers 'cause there always are some. My kid and I haven't loved every teacher or every moment of every day, but overall I think it's been a pretty good public school experience. She'll be leaving in a few weeks (5th grade graduation!) and I will be a little sad to leave the CES community.

[Sal_M]

Originally Posted by CHTransplant

This, to me, is the nub of the matter - whether folks view the cost as commensurate with the value being delivered.

In my personal view, it is not.

Is this because of what you mentioned in your earlier post and the district not serving the need of it's average high school students? I have considered switching districts so I appreciate your posts on this topic.

[michgc]

Originally Posted by poppydog

I haven't had any of the issues michgc has had, but I just have not been in those situations, really.

I don't have any reason to call the district (the people at my school have always been very helpful when I've called) and the teachers at CES have certainly been willing to go out of their way to challenge my kid. I have not pushed to have her in gifted math, though. She is in gifted reading and is very happy with her 89% (or something like that) on the math assessments. They just started doing quarterly (or maybe it's 3) online assessments a year which I think my kid likes better than the old bubble sheets. Still have to do EOGs, though.

We have clubs a couple of times a year after school. Right now my kid is in a creative writing club that meets on Mondays. I think she skipped clubs earlier in the year because she was doing the play which had rehearsals after school from Nov/Dec through Jan. She also did Girls on the Run after school. That was more than enough for us. We like plenty of down time.

Most of these situations stem from the middle school, which it sounds like you are avoiding by going to a charter school. I had to call the district about a district issue that the school couldn't help me with. I called no fewer than 5 times and left messages on various machines and never heard back from them. It wasn't until I started addressing them on Twitter or Facebook (can't remember which) that they finally got back to me.

I didn't push for advanced math either at the elementary level. Again, it was at the middle school level where our problems started. My daughter needed a 95% on her EOG to get into compacted math. (The following year the cutoff was a 90%). My daughter got an 88% or something like that, so she couldn't be put in it. Instead she was in a general education class that had MAJOR discipline problems from a lot of lower-performing kids. I had a meeting with the school, and they refused to move her (even to a different general education class). This year she is still in a gen. ed. class, but it's much better as the kids are more evenly matched academically. But it makes me nervous that she or my other child who also may not score 95% (or whatever arbitrary number they use that year) on the EOG could be in a horrible class like she was last year.

We like down time, too. Plus we do soccer. But with school ending so early - at 2:30, it would be nice if there were more extra-curriculars offered. We have Girls on the Run and an art class, but not much else. At our old elementary school, there were dozens of after school offerings - Mad Science, Girls on the Run, Fitness Warriors, Odyssey of the Mind, Chess Club, Language clubs, cheerleading, guitar, etc. I was just surprised when we moved here that there was so little. We'd adjusted and do activities elsewhere, so it's not a huge deal, but thought the OP would like to know.

Overall, though, we've been pretty happy with our elementary school. My expectations have been mostly met there, but I didn't expect it to be a center for major creativity, and it's not. It's like most other schools I've experienced. I do think my 3rd child might be gifted - or at least he's very smart - and I have no doubt that he would get what he needs as he moves through the district. Right now he doesn't get much differentiation - some - but not much, but I'm okay with that because he's only in 2nd grade, and there's time for that when he's older, but I wanted to point it out that they are stretched thin in that front in the elementary level. However, I do fear that my oldest two who are good students and reasonably smart but not "top of the class" smart will get lost in the cracks here.