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I saw over a dozen being used or in the process of beginning to be used. No one had a helmet. Everyone was zipping along on the sidewalks. These scooters were going fast, weaving around pedestrians, many of whom appeared quite startled. One person was a recognizable adult who was setting up his (possible) elementary aged daughter on her own scooter. The rest appeared between 14 - 21.
The interesting thing is you noticed the scooter safety while driving a car, which is the most dangerous thing you do each day and activity most likely to result in your death if you are under the age of 45. The thing that stood out though, was the scooter safety since they are new. You probably didn't notice the pedestrians hesitantly entering a crosswalk while a driver crossed the limit line and pulled halfway into the cross walk before stopping. Or the driver who turned into a parking garage and cut between two pedestrian on the sidewalk with less than 2 feet to spare. Or the driver who failed to yield to a pedestrian in the cross walk because they were on their phone and texting and the pedestrian had to run across to finish safely, etc... None of these cars things would stand out because we are so used to pedestrians having to be super careful around cars. Cars hit around 3,000 pedestrians in North Carolina each year, with pedestrian fatalities making up ~11% of traffic deaths statewide.
Further, the scooter behavior sounds a lot like cars, which isn't surprising since humans are irresponsible users of transportation technology (speeding, drunk driving, cell phones, etc...). We have cars zipping down the streets, typically going 10 - 20 miles per hour over the speed limit, with the driver on their cell phone, and slamming into people at 45 mph and killing them. Scooter regulation will only be as good as car regulations - which is essentially worthless with people who are irresponsible. They will make poor decisions whether the law is there or not.
Any mode of transportation (bikes, walking, cars, etc...) has risk. The focus people we have on these scooters that have yet to result in a fatality isn't surprising though as we have become numb and in general accept the risk it takes to drive a car... even though it takes one person running a red light and slamming into you at 60 mph to end your life. We have accepted the trade off of death and injury from cars though due to the efficiency we gain in life.
Most people aren't going to die getting hit by a 10mph scooter on the sidewalk, but they are new so our senses are elevated to it. I think over time, as we see the value in scooter improving transit and walkability in our cities, we will see people accept the trade offs versus the benefits (much like we tolerate car deaths).
Deflection. The topic here is the scooters, not the cars.
Quote:
Originally Posted by CLT4
The interesting thing is you noticed the scooter safety while driving a car, which is the most dangerous thing you do each day and activity most likely to result in your death if you are under the age of 45. The thing that stood out though, was the scooter safety since they are new. You probably didn't notice the pedestrians hesitantly entering a crosswalk while a driver crossed the limit line and pulled halfway into the cross walk before stopping. Or the driver who turned into a parking garage and cut between two pedestrian on the sidewalk with less than 2 feet to spare. Or the driver who failed to yield to a pedestrian in the cross walk because they were on their phone and texting and the pedestrian had to run across to finish safely, etc... None of these cars things would stand out because we are so used to pedestrians having to be super careful around cars. Cars hit around 3,000 pedestrians in North Carolina each year, with pedestrian fatalities making up ~11% of traffic deaths statewide.
Further, the scooter behavior sounds a lot like cars, which isn't surprising since humans are irresponsible users of transportation technology (speeding, drunk driving, cell phones, etc...). We have cars zipping down the streets, typically going 10 - 20 miles per hour over the speed limit, with the driver on their cell phone, and slamming into people at 45 mph and killing them. Scooter regulation will only be as good as car regulations - which is essentially worthless with people who are irresponsible. They will make poor decisions whether the law is there or not.
Any mode of transportation (bikes, walking, cars, etc...) has risk. The focus people we have on these scooters that have yet to result in a fatality isn't surprising though as we have become numb and in general accept the risk it takes to drive a car... even though it takes one person running a red light and slamming into you at 60 mph to end your life. We have accepted the trade off of death and injury from cars though due to the efficiency we gain in life.
Most people aren't going to die getting hit by a 10mph scooter on the sidewalk, but they are new so our senses are elevated to it. I think over time, as we see the value in scooter improving transit and walkability in our cities, we will see people accept the trade offs versus the benefits (much like we tolerate car deaths).
But if you want to bring cars into the discussion, the bigger concern is that someone MIGHT get hit WHILE on a 10 MPH scooter, BY a 3000# car, or that scooter, darting out in front of traffic, might cause the car to swerve and hit another car, pedestrian or cyclist. And while a scooter may not kill a pedestrian, I would not discount the suckiness of being hit by one, and having a broken bone, bruised face, or something else.
The point remains that they ARE new, and now is the time to focus on how to best incorporate them into use, if that's what we are going to do. Deflecting the subject by saying that Cars are dangerous does not help the scooter situation, and that is the topic here. It actually makes it worse, because you are contributing to missing the opportunity to get this right, whatever "getting it right" means.
Deflection. The topic here is the scooters, not the cars.
But if you want to bring cars into the discussion, the bigger concern is that someone MIGHT get hit WHILE on a 10 MPH scooter, BY a 3000# car, or that scooter, darting out in front of traffic, might cause the car to swerve and hit another car, pedestrian or cyclist. And while a scooter may not kill a pedestrian, I would not discount the suckiness of being hit by one, and having a broken bone, bruised face, or something else.
The point remains that they ARE new, and now is the time to focus on how to best incorporate them into use, if that's what we are going to do. Deflecting the subject by saying that Cars are dangerous does not help the scooter situation, and that is the topic here. It actually makes it worse, because you are contributing to missing the opportunity to get this right, whatever "getting it right" means.
I completely agree that there are improvements to be made in how scooters are implemented. My point, is they are never going to be implemented perfectly (because people break the law constantly) in all modes of transportation. People jaywalk, they speed, they drink and drive, etc... we WILL have the same issues with scooters no matter how much we regulate them. Somebody WILL die eventually because people make mistakes and break the law daily. We will have to accept a degree of risk for something that is an overall improvement to walkability and urban life in city centers (just like we do for cars). Currently, many are holding the scooters to a higher standard than other modes of transportation. I'd like to see a road where 80% of the cars are actually following the 35 mph speed limit at rush hour.
We have to find the balance between reasonable enforcement and toleration of rule breaking (like we do for cars).
Nope, I've seen this too. And I hadn't even thought about them being obstacles to wheelchairs. No way a wheelchair could go around the ones I've seen lying around.
The interesting thing is you noticed the scooter safety while driving a car, which is the most dangerous thing you do each day and activity most likely to result in your death if you are under the age of 45. The thing that stood out though, was the scooter safety since they are new. You probably didn't notice the pedestrians hesitantly entering a crosswalk while a driver crossed the limit line and pulled halfway into the cross walk before stopping. Or the driver who turned into a parking garage and cut between two pedestrian on the sidewalk with less than 2 feet to spare. Or the driver who failed to yield to a pedestrian in the cross walk because they were on their phone and texting and the pedestrian had to run across to finish safely, etc... None of these cars things would stand out because we are so used to pedestrians having to be super careful around cars. Cars hit around 3,000 pedestrians in North Carolina each year, with pedestrian fatalities making up ~11% of traffic deaths statewide.
Further, the scooter behavior sounds a lot like cars, which isn't surprising since humans are irresponsible users of transportation technology (speeding, drunk driving, cell phones, etc...). We have cars zipping down the streets, typically going 10 - 20 miles per hour over the speed limit, with the driver on their cell phone, and slamming into people at 45 mph and killing them. Scooter regulation will only be as good as car regulations - which is essentially worthless with people who are irresponsible. They will make poor decisions whether the law is there or not.
Any mode of transportation (bikes, walking, cars, etc...) has risk. The focus people we have on these scooters that have yet to result in a fatality isn't surprising though as we have become numb and in general accept the risk it takes to drive a car... even though it takes one person running a red light and slamming into you at 60 mph to end your life. We have accepted the trade off of death and injury from cars though due to the efficiency we gain in life.
Most people aren't going to die getting hit by a 10mph scooter on the sidewalk, but they are new so our senses are elevated to it. I think over time, as we see the value in scooter improving transit and walkability in our cities, we will see people accept the trade offs versus the benefits (much like we tolerate car deaths).
Cars are dangerous. Got it. That's why there are classes and instruction, license tests at regular intervals, insurance and law enforcement. Traffic has been designed around cars, motorcycles, bicycles (to a lesser degree) and pedestrians.
Scooters are here to stay, I would venture, and the world will adapt. Scooters have their place...but it isn't on a sidewalk designed for pedestrian traffic.
I love these scooters and I wish we had them in Chicago. Chicago has an extensive dock bike program, but the dock gives you less flexibility. Sometimes you have to walk 5-10min to a dock, then another 5-10min from the destination dock to where you are trying to go.
Having them piled up on the sidewalks is annoying, but how is that any worse than having lines of cars parked in spaces that could be used for other things?
I love these scooters and I wish we had them in Chicago. Chicago has an extensive dock bike program, but the dock gives you less flexibility. Sometimes you have to walk 5-10min to a dock, then another 5-10min from the destination dock to where you are trying to go.
Having them piled up on the sidewalks is annoying, but how is that any worse than having lines of cars parked in spaces that could be used for other things?
People rarely trip over cars parked on the sidewalk.
Having them piled up on the sidewalks is annoying, but how is that any worse than having lines of cars parked in spaces that could be used for other things?
You really don't see a difference between cars parked in a straight line along the curb and scooters strewn across the sidewalk wherever people decide to drop them?
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