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Ok UnderPSI, I will give you page 52 of the handbook, under "Turning". It looks like you are correct there.
BUT, it still seems to me that the left turner needs to yield regardless of whether or not the right hand turner is making a mistake.
It's not clear.
Well, obviously you yield when the other driver is in the wrong. You can't just smash into them. That's called defensive driving. But, like I said, that's my gripe. Driver's are so ignorant to the laws they don't know they're doing anything wrong.
My favorite example of driver ignorance/selfishness/who-knows-what-they're-thinking around here is the 4-way stop. It always seems to be a combination of people too passive or "polite" to take their turn, preferring to wave someone else ahead, and people too aggressive to follow the first-come-first-go rule.
I definitely noticed when I first moved here that a lot of drivers don't dare creep into the intersection while waiting for an opportunity to turn left. Or they do, but then they never actually make the turn so they're still sitting in the intersection after the light turns red.
My favorite example of driver ignorance/selfishness/who-knows-what-they're-thinking around here is the 4-way stop. It always seems to be a combination of people too passive or "polite" to take their turn, preferring to wave someone else ahead, and people too aggressive to follow the first-come-first-go rule.
I definitely noticed when I first moved here that a lot of drivers don't dare creep into the intersection while waiting for an opportunity to turn left. Or they do, but then they never actually make the turn so they're still sitting in the intersection after the light turns red.
I've noticed this as well and there was a thread fragment on this recently. I think to JK's point people need to follow the rules of the road and do things in the order they are supposed to - just this week I had someone going straight at a 4-way waiting on me who was turning, I refused and sat there until they passed through. I don't need or appreciate that kind of misguided politeness, it will cause accidents and the wrong person would be in the wrong.
Just yesterday at a 4-way stop & signal when I was going straight the pickup coming towards me turned (his) left in front of me before me when the light changed, could have caused an accident from his arrogance. I too have cams now for things like this. Muppet.
My favorite example of driver ignorance/selfishness/who-knows-what-they're-thinking around here is the 4-way stop. It always seems to be a combination of people too passive or "polite" to take their turn, preferring to wave someone else ahead, and people too aggressive to follow the first-come-first-go rule.
I definitely noticed when I first moved here that a lot of drivers don't dare creep into the intersection while waiting for an opportunity to turn left. Or they do, but then they never actually make the turn so they're still sitting in the intersection after the light turns red.
Do I dare ask the board on the rules of a 4 way stop here in NC?
I was trained that it is "FIFO - First in, First Out" However, if there is a doubt about who reached the stop sign first, the car to the right has right of way?
Do I dare ask the board on the rules of a 4 way stop here in NC?
I was trained that it is "FIFO - First in, First Out" However, if there is a doubt about who reached the stop sign first, the car to the right has right of way?
You'd be correct and the NCDOT actually has an entire pamphlet dedicated to this because people are so "deer in headlights" about it.
Quote:
Frequently
Asked Questions
About All-way Stop
Intersections
Q: What is an all-way stop?
A: All-way stops are a low cost form of
intersection control. Stop signs are placed
at each road approaching an intersection
requiring all drivers to stop before
proceeding through the intersection.
All-way stops are commonly referred to
as four-way or three-way stops.
Q: Who goes first at an all-way stop?
A: The first vehicle to reach the intersection
should move forward first. If two vehicles
reach the intersection at the same time, the
driver on the right would proceed first.
Q: Why are all-way stop signs being installed
at this intersection?
A: Once a safety concern is identified, NCDOT
and local government officials evaluate the
intersection for safety. If a safety issue is
identified, an all-way stop may be installed
if it is determined to be the appropriate
action. Intersections with low traffic
volumes do not warrant a traffic signal.
Traffic signals can cause more traffic delays
and be more expensive to maintain than allway
stops. An all-way stop is not installed to
reduce speed.
Q: What are the benefits of having all-way
stop signs installed?
A: All-way stop signs are low cost and can
be quickly installed. All-way stop signs
allow drivers to take turns entering the
intersection, resulting in fewer and less
severe crashes.
Q: Are all-way stops appropriate everywhere?
A: No. The decision to use an all-way stop
versus another form of traffic control
is made on a case-by-case basis. NCDOT
and local government officials evaluate
each candidate intersection individually
to determine whether an all-way stop
or another form of traffic control would
be more effective in addressing a safety
concern.
Q: Will installing all-way stop signs reduce
the crashes at this intersection?
A: North Carolina crashes of all types have
been reduced by an average of 68 percent
where an intersection was converted to an
all-way stop. Also, crashes are typically less
severe once all-way stop signs are installed.
Injury crashes have been reduced by an
average of 77 percent where all-way stops
have been installed to replace existing
intersections. For more information, please
review the technical report available at http://www.ncdot.org/doh/preconstruc...completed.html.
Q: How should bicyclists navigate an all-way
stop?
A: Bicyclists must stop at the intersection just
like any other type of vehicle. The first
vehicle to reach the intersection should
move forward first. If two vehicles reach
the intersection at the same time, the
driver on the right would proceed first
You'd be correct and the NCDOT actually has an entire pamphlet dedicated to this because people are so "deer in headlights" about it.
I’m sure this will come across more negatively than I mean it to sound as it’s just text, but much of the conversation this thread alludes to makes me think of the “Brooks was here scene” at the end of Shawshank Redemption.
“I saw a car once as a kid, now they’re everywhere. The world went and got itself in a *** damned hurry.”
The problem is that kids are no longer learning the nuances of good driving before they get a license. Public schools don’t have full scale driving courses in their curriculum. That leaves it to parents or high volume private companies to do the minimum to push a kid through their training. Then the dmv is so busy the driving tests are trivial.
Hate to say it but older drivers taught the old fashioned way notice. We learned that you absolutely had to stop behind that thick white line in your lane at an intersection. You must stop fully when required such that your car actually rocks back over the tires. You must use turn signals. You must have headlights on when your windshield wipers are on. Etc etc you follow the rules and are proud of it. Except for speeding 7 miles above the speed limit lol
Oh yeah and you stay in your lane without drifting left and right as if you are snoozing
Do I dare ask the board on the rules of a 4 way stop here in NC?
I was trained that it is "FIFO - First in, First Out" However, if there is a doubt about who reached the stop sign first, the car to the right has right of way?
Honest question - what if both vehicles are coming from opposite directions, so neither vehicle is to the right, who has right of way in this scenario (if one of the cars is turning left for instance)?
The problem is that kids are no longer learning the nuances of good driving before they get a license. Public schools don’t have full scale driving courses in their curriculum. That leaves it to parents or high volume private companies to do the minimum to push a kid through their training. Then the dmv is so busy the driving tests are trivial.
Hate to say it but older drivers taught the old fashioned way notice. We learned that you absolutely had to stop behind that thick white line in your lane at an intersection. You must stop fully when required such that your car actually rocks back over the tires. You must use turn signals. You must have headlights on when your windshield wipers are on. Etc etc you follow the rules and are proud of it. Except for speeding 7 miles above the speed limit lol
Oh yeah and you stay in your lane without drifting left and right as if you are snoozing
How does that explain the ~50 and over crowd who "can't" drive, who would have had drivers ed in school? Bad driving habits are not merely the playground of the young.
I think bad driving comes down to a handful of general pillars
1. To your point, education could probably help
2. A lack of respect for the power being wielded. Whether it is driving drunk or just ignoring the rules of the road because you can't be bothered; they put a stop sign at the T intersection my home is at in Heritage over a year ago; if I had a dollar for every car who barely brakes, let alone stops, and instead just blows through it, my house would be paid off...if you're willing to blow through a stop sign in a neighborhood in front of 12 sets of parents and 30 kids playing, I'd hate to see what you're willing to do on the main roads.
3. Distractions and the lack of enforcement of them - penalties for cellphone use should be staggering as should DUI. There was a guy up in MA a year or two ago who killed a woman in what was his 6th DUI.....how do you even have a system that allows for more than 2 let alone 6?
4. Lack of common sense - see the video from I-70 in KC during a snowstorm last week. Driving normal highway speeds in a snowstorm is the realm of idiots. This could fall under education, but I'd put it in the "common sense" bucket.
Last edited by GVoR; 02-24-2019 at 09:19 AM..
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