Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I will show FSBO's, but only as a last resort and only if it meets a lot of my clients criteria. Most of my clients don't have the time or inclination to mess around with FSBO's.
My most recent experience with a FSBO typifies why REALTORS find them difficult. Owners were flipping house next door to their own so were picky about the buyer. Owners slightly overpriced house that they had put "heart" into and had unrealistic expectations about the market place. Owners claimed an attorney would be handling things for them, but other than the initial offer, I know they never called the attorney with questions. They asked me. How do I know this? Because they accused me of taking advantage of the fact they didn't have representation when it came to the inspection response. Did I? Nope, response was typical based upon inspection report. Although some of my clients requests were outrageous during the course of the process, I still had to ask. These owners failed to grasp that I was required to make these requests. They failed to understand that I didn't choose the appraiser. They didn't like the fact that they had never heard of the inspector. Another agent could have mediated some of the hard feelings that developed because my clients were represented, and they were not.
Never again!
I can understand that. If we felt these were going to be issues for us or our house we would never ever dream of putting it FSBO. But that is a type of person(s). I am sure they approach everything in life with the same attitude and ignorance. Not all are like that.
Location: Moved to town. Miss 'my' woods and critters.
25,464 posts, read 13,570,117 times
Reputation: 31765
I do not believe for one minute that there is, nor ever was, a 'conspiracy' against FSBO's by real estate agents. OBTW, there is some difference between being a REALTOR and a real estate agent. A REALTOR belongs to the National Association of Realtors and their State and Local Boards. A real estate agent does not. They do not pay dues to these boards, follow the Code of Ethics that REALTORS must follow, etc. This does NOT make them any less qualified to do business in their state. Just a difference in title and such. We have both here, just a Broker's decision which way to go. No offense to either method. In my area we approach FSBO's and offer services to them. We do this if we have a potential buyer that is seeking property similar to the FSBO property. Sure, I would prefer to 'get the listing' and market the property myself rather than not. Many home owners are perfectly capable of selling their own property without the services of a licensed real estate agent. More power to them. BUT, there are others, the majority, that do rely on and require our services. I so wish that the below surface feeling out there that all real estate agents are 'out' to get ya would just go away.
Many have replied in this thread that they have sold their own property and 'saved' many dollars by using an attorney of their choice, etc. Keep in mind folks, that attorneys are the ones that wrote the laws that we, as real estate agents, must adhere to. This business is not too different from others. If you have the abilities to paint your own home, go ahead, if not, then hire a painting contractor. If you like to tinker with motors, again, go ahead or hire a mechanic. What I am getting at here folks, when we are needed we will be there to assist with our knowledge, experience, and downright enthusiasm to get the job done for you.
So, again, I say, nope, there is no conspiracy against FSBO's, we just may not have the time nor the buyer interested in what you have to sell. Plus, we are walking into uncharted territory when we approach you and you already have a negative mindset about working WITH us. Go ahead, sell it yourself and I wish you well. You are not alone, many do this every day. Good luck
Northwoods Voyager - I REALLY would love to believe that your opinion is representative of the rest of the realtors and/or real estate agents. However, based on comments in this thread alone, the bias, conspiracy, dismissive (or insert the adjective you best prefer) nature toward FSBO/Flat fees DOES exist.
Here are some of the things that realtors have been accused or have admitted to doing:
- Avoiding FSBO or flat fee houses even though they know that the house would be a good match for their client.
- Showing a FSBO property because their client saw it and said they wanted a showing and then the realtor points out flaws to discourage the sale.
- Sorting MLS houses high-to-low by buyer agent commission when starting a tour of houses with their clients hoping that the buyer will find a house in the higher commission range first....or worse yet, chopping off the list where the commission is below a certain rate.
- Showing houses of their realtor friends or houses listed with their agency first....despite other houses being a better match.
Now, you may not think there is anything inherently wrong with some or all of these accusations; however, they ultimately demonstrate that the realtor has their own best interests in mind - not their client's. Call it human nature, path of least resistance or blame it on the intensity of the market, it is a selfish thing to do if being paid to be the buyer's advocate. I don't want to make the mistake of assuming a realtor is looking out for my best interest just because I am putting a little money in their pocket.
the average "drop-out" rate is 90% within 2 years(for new licensed r.e.agents) so, it cant be that easy!
Hey, no way would I want to be a realtor! I know as an average, they earn their money just like everyone else on this planet. My point was just to say that the PERCEPTION is that they don't. The high drop out rate supports this perception.
Hopefully, no one is stuck on the connotative meaning of the word "conspiracy". I don't for one minute imagine that all the realtors of the nation get together in a secret, underground fortress to discuss how they can put a stop.....once and for all.......to those evil FSBO'ers!
Can I toss in my 2 cents? I am not an agent - I am a FSBO - since we live on Long Island where the agents can not handle contracts and since we HAVE to get a lawyer for that anyway, we decided to do our own homework, market analysis and are using an online service. We also interviewed 4 realtors and found they wanted the listing for far too long and wanted high commissions AND we were not getting a warm feeling about anything they suggested. Realtors around here think they are the only ones who can handle all this "technical" stuff. I am willing to wait for the right buyer and I can negotiate because it's my home and I feel I know what I am doing.
Enough said about me - let me tell you about my sister-in-law who's an agent in the state of Indiana. Her company does not bargain with commissions - it's a straight 7% for the first $250k of the listing price. Every dollar over that is figured at a 5% commission. Now, she also tells me that in her training class this other guy said he would refuse to show a "low commission" home - I'm guessing he also means the flat fee people or any FSBO. Without knowing his particular reasons I can tell you also what she told me SHE does: she will show ANY house to ANY buyer; however, what she does when she gets to the home with the lower commissions is to PICK IT APART - purposely finds fault in every corner so the buyer will see only problems and basically will not even consider making an offer - even if this house is perfect for them - she will find so many reasons for them to think twice and look elsewhere. After she told me this I went searching the internet for reasons why this sounded like it was totally outrageous and I found an article that was great. I also found the correct story to what she said was happening in her state: that the FSBO's and discount brokers would be outlawed. Against the law? Can't be I said to myself. Now, THAT smells like anti-trust, right? Yup, it is and there's another article if you care to check on it that explains just what has been happening.
The Star also published a letter from State Representative Tim Harris (Marion) on the same subject. Rep. Harris, who authored HEA 1339, also responds to the March 19th piece. His letter clarifies what the legislation does and does not do:
HB 1339 does not do the following:
• Require marketing of the property.
• Address compensation issues in any way.
• Prohibit discount brokerage.
• Prohibit consumers from selling their home as a "for sale by owner", or with the assistance of an attorney.
HB 1339 specifically requires licensees to do only the following:
• Be available to present offers and counter-offers.
• Assist in negotiating and completing forms.
• Be available to respond to questions.
The state has already required more services of licensees than the above, but HB 1339 merely sets out that these services cannot be "contracted away."
Rep. Harris also points out that discount brokers are thriving in states that have passed similar legislation—you can read his full letter here. We hope that this information sets the record straight with respect to HEA 1339.
Feds say real estate brokers block competition
May 9th, 2007 — Diane Webster
Feds say real estate brokers block competition
Report recommends repealing existing laws
Tuesday, May 08, 2007
Hello Friends,
Finally!!!!! Now we have offical confirmation that traditional realtors have been black balling consumers and steering buyers and sellers away from alternative real estate service companies. The FTC and DOJ’s new report shows traditional realtors in some cases do not act in the best interests of their clients. Read On.
Take care,
Diane Webster
Broker/Owner
America-at-Home Real Estate
Flat Fee to Full Service Real Estate Company saves sellers and buyers thousands of dollars on their transaction!
A report released Tuesday by the U.S. Federal Trade Commission and U.S. Department of Justice concludes that real estate brokers, state legislators and state regulators have impeded competition in the real estate industry, and recommends a repeal of existing laws, rules and regulations that limit consumer choices.
While surveys suggest that real estate commission rates — based on a percentage of a home’s selling price — have dropped during a rapid run-up in home prices from 2001-05, “real commission fees rose about 25 percent” during that period.
Because commission fees “do not tend to vary in proportion to changing home prices,” they are considered to be “relatively inflexible,” the report states, and the agencies recommend that regulators pursue a detailed study of commission rate and fee practices to better measure price competition in the industry.
You might want to read the news and find out what is REALLY happening. Competition is fierce and I believe agents will do just about anything to keep their job secure. There is plenty of information on the FTC's web page if you do a search for real estate and anti-trust actions.
In light of the substantial changes in the real estate brokerage marketplace and consumers’ interest in a competitive real estate brokerage industry, the Antitrust Division and the Federal Trade Commission will hold a workshop to provide a forum on the competitiveness of the residential real estate industry.
The workshop will cover topics such as buyers' rebates, discount brokers and limited-service brokers, and minimum service requirements.
In particular, discussion will center around the following topics:
The real estate transaction
Empirical evidence regarding competition in the industry
Private and state actions that affect competition among sellers’ brokers
Private and state actions that affect competition among buyers’ brokers.
For more information on these topics and the scope of this workshop, read the Federal Register Notice.
Here are some of the things that realtors have been accused or have admitted to doing:
- Avoiding FSBO or flat fee houses even though they know that the house would be a good match for their client.
- Showing a FSBO property because their client saw it and said they wanted a showing and then the realtor points out flaws to discourage the sale.
- Sorting MLS houses high-to-low by buyer agent commission when starting a tour of houses with their clients hoping that the buyer will find a house in the higher commission range first....or worse yet, chopping off the list where the commission is below a certain rate.
- Showing houses of their realtor friends or houses listed with their agency first....despite other houses being a better match.
I will admit to some of these things but with reasons.
Avoiding the FSBO or Flat Fee... If it is in the MLS I generally don't consider it a FSBO because to be in the MLS there has to be some compensation offered. I will look at the commission rate though due to the fact that some of the flat fee and discount brokers have been known to offer $202 minus $200 to the selling office. I know that is an extreme but even the ones offering $500 just are not worth it to me. I am sure if you had a job making $20 an hour and your boss came up and said, we have someone that wants to use the company services but does not want to pay the normal amount so you will only get paid $1 an hour, you I am sure would not accept this. For people going discount, flat fee or FSBO this is their choice and the chance they take that they will get less showings.
Showing a FSBO property because their client saw it and said they wanted a showing and then the realtor points out flaws to discourage the sale....If they are offering decent compensation I will not point out flaws or anything such as that. If they are not offering decent compensation I will not show it.
Sorting MLS houses high-to-low by buyer agent commission when starting a tour of houses with their clients hoping that the buyer will find a house in the higher commission range first....or worse yet, chopping off the list where the commission is below a certain rate....If all the homes meet my buyers criteria and they are within my acceptable range of compensation I order them according to location and when we can get in.
Once again if they are not with in my acceptable range of compensation I will not show them. Now before anyone starts jumping on me about my clients best interests, I have sold homes where my commission percentage was 1.5% after that it reaches the point where it is not fiscally responsible for me to show them. A $500 or $1000 Flat Fee is not going to keep me in business.
Showing houses of their realtor friends or houses listed with their agency first....despite other houses being a better match.... I sometimes will only because I may be more familiar with the homes but not if they are not the best match. An example of this is having a buyer come in one day and told me what they were looking for. I just happened to have discussed with another agent I knew a listing they just got that matched exactly. We went right out and viewed the home, it was the only one I showed and they bought it.
Location: Moved to town. Miss 'my' woods and critters.
25,464 posts, read 13,570,117 times
Reputation: 31765
I guess we do things a tad bit differently here in the boondocks of Missouri. We have 12 agents in our office. Some of us have been around for 20 yrs. or more. We have others that are in their 10-12th year. And a few that would be considered 'newbies'. At our weekly office meetings we discuss with each other and the Broker what has been happening with our listings and what we can do to get more exposure, more showings, better advertising, etc. We also talk about some of the showings that we have had. Lately not enough! Some of us have made contacts with For Sale By Owners and have listed the property. Other times , we exchange information about the FSBO's that are out there and what they look like, price being asked, etc. We have a large territory to cover out here. Nothing to drive 30-45 minutes to show property.
We DO contact FSBO's and sometimes get permission to show their property to 'our' buyer and sometimes not.
Most FSBO's here offer a 3% commission to us if we do in fact sell their property. Nothing wrong with that.
I hesitate to admit it, but most of agents concerns here are: how to get along with other companies. This IS a highly competitive business and there are unethical people around here, I am sure. But there just doesn't appear to be the type of FSBO situation around here. Maybe it has something to do with being a rural area. These people are our friends, club buddies, church attenders (is that a good word?) People whom wait on us at stores, restaurants and the like. But, I came here from St. Louis and don't recall this FSBO concern being so nasty or a big problem. Maybe I have to take off my rose-coloured glasses more often. Sorry about rambling here, but I am new to this forum business and just want to express how I feel and how the agents that I work with say they feel about this topic.
I guess we do things a tad bit differently here in the boondocks of Missouri. We have 12 agents in our office. Some of us have been around for 20 yrs. or more. We have others that are in their 10-12th year. And a few that would be considered 'newbies'. At our weekly office meetings we discuss with each other and the Broker what has been happening with our listings and what we can do to get more exposure, more showings, better advertising, etc. We also talk about some of the showings that we have had. Lately not enough! Some of us have made contacts with For Sale By Owners and have listed the property. Other times , we exchange information about the FSBO's that are out there and what they look like, price being asked, etc. We have a large territory to cover out here. Nothing to drive 30-45 minutes to show property.
We DO contact FSBO's and sometimes get permission to show their property to 'our' buyer and sometimes not.
Most FSBO's here offer a 3% commission to us if we do in fact sell their property. Nothing wrong with that.
I hesitate to admit it, but most of agents concerns here are: how to get along with other companies. This IS a highly competitive business and there are unethical people around here, I am sure. But there just doesn't appear to be the type of FSBO situation around here. Maybe it has something to do with being a rural area. These people are our friends, club buddies, church attenders (is that a good word?) People whom wait on us at stores, restaurants and the like. But, I came here from St. Louis and don't recall this FSBO concern being so nasty or a big problem. Maybe I have to take off my rose-coloured glasses more often. Sorry about rambling here, but I am new to this forum business and just want to express how I feel and how the agents that I work with say they feel about this topic.
Please open an office down here! You know, this is a a rural area where we are and it used to be the "down home" kind of place but after the RE boom of 04 and 05 everything changed.
Mike P - I appreciate your honesty. I am not saying I would not do the same thing....or worse....if I were in your shoes. Not to say that they are inherently bad things. My biggest problem is that so often you don't get this honesty from someone and if people knew it right off the bat, they might become a little more proactive in the process. I am certainly not suggesting that everybody go FSBO or flat fee MLS, I just think that those who do should not be punished.
btw - when I say flat fee MLS, I'm only talking about the MLS listing & selling service. The buyer's agent, in my opinion, should always get 2-3% of the purchase price. Afterall, they are the one who brings the buyer and does a lot of obvious leg work.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Hard working agents
Another angle
Some of us have made contacts with For Sale By Owners and have listed the property. Other times , we exchange information about the FSBO's that are out there and what they look like, price being asked, etc. We have a large territory to cover out here. Nothing to drive 30-45 minutes to show property.
