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Kindly show me the agency law and ethical conduct statutes that you have referenced.
Re-read your posts and the responses. You know exactly what you're doing, and completely understand what is a violation of agency law and what is unethical conduct. I'm not going to play ring around the roses with you.
I'm not going to post here anymore because it's purely "pro" agent - doesn't do me any good. Have found other message boards that are discussing this issue whom are pro consumer. Don't need to be chided by agents trying to justify their commissions when a buyer is doing most of the legwork.
Perhaps if you would "seek first to understand" instead of demanding that the industry accommodate you, the comments being offered might be of more value to you. You seem to bring to the discussion a predisposition against agents, which leaks out in the comments you make.
Bottom line, it's not clear what your end goal is. I asked before but you didn't respond. What is it you are trying to achieve by doing things the hard way? Do you think you'll produce a better outcome on your own, or do you want to get a commission rebate, or both?
We are starting to look at houses in the Cary, NC area and do virtually all of our research online. We visit open houses and call on a listing if it looks like something we may be interested in.
One of the first questions we are asked is "do we have a buyers agent"? We don't. But that doesn't mean we may not get one at some point - and we are aware of a firm here that will rebate back 35% of their commission if we go through them. We will not sign anything buyer-agency related until we are ready.
Virtually all agents promote that "it doesn't cost anything to use a buyer agent" and that "their fees are paid by the seller"... but we have been told that some brokers may not split the commission with our buyer agent (if we get one), because they didn't show the house or notify the listing agent that we were "their buyers".
It seems like listing agents and listing firms are "put out" when we want to see a house, especially since we don't want to sign a buyer agency form. They work for the seller and automatically assume they are entitled to "us" since we don't have a buyers agent at a showing.
Can they legally withhold commission from a buyers agent we select if we want to use them? The agent we want to use is not a Realtor, but is a licensed broker. The 35% rebate is a main selling point for us to use them. I understand that this is somewhat outside the realm of "traditional", but honestly it seems like some brokers want to hold us hostage to using them. We want to buy a house and make the system work for us.
You have received a remarkably consistent answer from the professionals on this list.
You can use anyone you want but if not a regular member of the local MLS he will likely have to negotiate an arrangement to get any commission and it will likely not be that which would go to another member of the same MLS.
You appear to wish this were not true. That is your right but it changes little. Hell I still think the idea of a Buyer's Agent being paid by the seller is really dumb. But nobody listens to me either.
So go in peace. Keep your view but understand the practicality...even if you don't like it.
I'm not going to post here anymore because it's purely "pro" agent - doesn't do me any good. Have found other message boards that are discussing this issue whom are pro consumer. Don't need to be chided by agents trying to justify their commissions when a buyer is doing most of the legwork.
I read through this entire thread yesterday and I've kept up with it since. I can honestly say almost all of the responses you've received have been very matter of fact. There's been very little if any opinion issued at all from anyone. You may not like the facts, but that doesn't make them any less true. As others have said, it's completely ridiculous in this industry that the buyer's agent is paid by the seller. I'd love for that to change, but I don't believe it's going to happen anytime soon.
In my experience, it's the people who don't think they need help that are the ones who really need it the most. I've been doing this for years and I still every once in a while need to lean on someone else. That's the fun thing about this job. Every transaction is different.
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Originally Posted by Silverfall
Oh I did. It's just hard for me to imagine being efficient meeting buyer agents at homes. I know in NYC and in parts of Chicago it is normal for the listing agent to hold they key and meet buyers and their agents there. I am sure you average home price is higher than mine which is $150,000.
The median sale price in my hometown is $675K. In the other towns I do a lot of work in the median sale prices are approximately $725K, $984K, $916K, and $400. We're overwhelmed with agents in these towns so there are a lot of agents fighting over a limited number of transactions. Here in Needham I think it averages out to 3 transactions per agent annually. It's really ridiculous.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverfall
We all read it. We are just trying to help you understand the verbiage of cooperating and how that works in the sharing compensation system. You don't have to like the system. Many agents, including myself, would prefer that buyers pay their agents directly and sellers pay their agents directly, but there are things outside our control that keep that from happening.
I don't understand why you can't see the other side, honestly. I mean at your workplace surely you have someone that slacks off and the other employees have to pick up more work as a result of the slacker? You have to have run into a situation like that. I bet if you asked all the employees if they thought it was fair that they had to do extra work, most would say no. If you asked employees if they thought it would be fair that they got part of the slackers salary, most would say yes. The difference is that real estate agents can correct that disparity by changing the split.
I am sure there are agents that rebate that are members of the MLS so that you don't have to worry about the compensation issue. I would just find one of them. If not, the other agent should be well versed in compensation issues and know how to get that negotiated in advance for you.
I just wanted to say I absolutely love reading your posts. Your philosphy on running your business overlaps quite a bit with my own. You also have a wonderfully clear and concise way that you express yourself. I'd bump your reputation again, but the system won't let me. If you ever want to move out to the east coast and sell real estate, make sure you give me a call.
...As others have said, it's completely ridiculous in this industry that the buyer's agent is paid by the seller. I'd love for that to change, but I don't believe it's going to happen anytime soon.
...
I think for it to change, 2 things will need to happen:
a) Mortgage underwriting rules for "conforming" loans will need to be changed to allow the rolling in of a buyer agent commission with the loan.
b) Buyers will have to be willing to pay agents directly.
I can think of a multitude of problems each of these would present, which I won't go into completely. But one thing I expect is that buyers and their agents would simply write offers that request the seller to pay the buyer commission. Thus, where would that leave it?
The median sale price in my hometown is $675K. In the other towns I do a lot of work in the median sale prices are approximately $725K, $984K, $916K, and $400. We're overwhelmed with agents in these towns so there are a lot of agents fighting over a limited number of transactions. Here in Needham I think it averages out to 3 transactions per agent annually. It's really ridiculous.
At that price point, agents are about 50/50 in attending showings here. (Except the $400k...those are on lockbox). Even with our $150 median, the average for my MLS is 3.4 per agent. Now that is total craziness.
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Originally Posted by MikePRU
I just wanted to say I absolutely love reading your posts. Your philosphy on running your business overlaps quite a bit with my own. You also have a wonderfully clear and concise way that you express yourself. I'd bump your reputation again, but the system won't let me. If you ever want to move out to the east coast and sell real estate, make sure you give me a call.
I've been to MA and liked it when I was there many years ago. I want to take the kids out there and have them go see all of the amazing history out there.
I thought it was a pretty state, but I'm too laid back for the east coast. You'd probably make me wear high heels and a suit out there...
...
I can think of a multitude of problems each of these would present, which I won't go into completely. But one thing I expect is that buyers and their agents would simply write offers that request the seller to pay the buyer commission. Thus, where would that leave it?
Steve
Commissions should always be negotiated in separate agreements. Attempting to negotiate commissions within a purchase contract could present some legal issues; especially if the buyer were to claim that the buyer agent suggested that it be negotiated in the contract, and the offer is rejected.
Commissions should always be negotiated in separate agreements. Attempting to negotiate commissions within a purchase contract could present some legal issues; especially if the buyer were to claim that the buyer agent suggested that it be negotiated in the contract, and the offer is rejected.
Agreed. But since so many buyers can barely afford the downpayment, and those who do have the extra cash would not want to pay it out of pocket anyway (my assumption - I could be wrong), it seems the only way to work it into the deal would be for the seller to offer to pay it. Then it's not part of the contract (at least not in Texas).
Agreed. But since so many buyers can barely afford the downpayment, and those who do have the extra cash would not want to pay it out of pocket anyway (my assumption - I could be wrong), it seems the only way to work it into the deal would be for the seller to offer to pay it. Then it's not part of the contract (at least not in Texas).
Steve
Oh all that would happen is that it would be a line item on the buyer side and the amount of closing costs that buyers would ask for would be higher. It would get rolled into the transaction as it is now, BUT I do think that if that legally the agent compensation were the responsibility of the buyers, like lender closing costs, they would think long and hard about whom they hire. I think because buyers think of agents as free, some don't spend time hiring a good one. If you were required to sign a document that said my fee is $20,000? I think most buyers would be asking a lot of questions. As it should be.
The lenders would have to increase the 6% cap on closing costs and VA would have to make it an allowable closing cost.
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