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Mine was useless. I went online myself and picked out the homes i wanted to see. She only showed me the homes.
She was a part time RE agent and i had to sign a three month contract( i now know that was a HUGE no no.)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brandon Hoffman
Signing a contract isn't a no-no, but hiring a part time agent should be. Why on earth do so many people trust such an expensive transaction with a part time worker?
Signing a contract is not a No-No but the consumer should have some sort of escape clause for non-performance by the agent. The contract generally protects the consumer. If the agent wrongs you, then you have legal recourse because the agent violated their fiduciary duty. It becomes much tougher with a verbal contract or implied agency because verbal contracts are generally not enforcable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverfall
Of course, she was useless. She was a part-time agent who didn't spend the hundreds of hours required to become an expert. Why didn't you look for an expert?
Favorite Gary Keller story :
He was in therapy after his divorce, whining about his ex's flaws.
The therapist cut him off:
"I don't want to hear any more. YOU picked her. YOU need to take responsibility and come to terms."
Picking idiot agents seems to fall into a similar dynamic.
Own it.
[quote=LynnKrause1;66120220]I started as a Real Estate Broker/ not a salesperson in 1987. Interest rates were 16.5 percsion for a nameless, faceless person who would waltz through the door with a person who liked the house. The house sells itself, individuals do not. If you want a 4 bedroom home ...there is no way I can sell you a 2 bedroom home, even if it is "cute". I would have been really happy to ljust negotiate a price for which I would work for them. Some were listing they 3rd or 4th home with me.
The house sells itself?
Why would you show a 2 BR house to somebody who wants 4 BRs? Do you ever ask?
First off, i rely on the realtor to exhibit salesmanship. I don't need somebody to just shuffle paper around. I can do that. But, I use a realtor to SELL my property. Do you just pop open the door, let the folks in and sit in your car fiddling with your i phone until they come back out? Sounds like it. I have been known to send in ringers, babe. (folks who will request a showing, but are doing my QA - i.e., answering my question: is that agent pointing out stuff that may not be obvious? Pointing out stuff that may be particularly interesting to that particular potential buyer, who in talking to them you have an idea of what features they may find especially interesting? Explaining how this house has features that validate its price?)
I usually insert a qualifier in a real estate contract that if no salesmanship or reasonable knowledge of the property is demonstrated to a reasonable degree, than the contract is void. I know several people who do the same thing. It's not 1959 anymore.
Why would one waste time showing a property to someone uninterested in it? Wasting your time, and wasting the seller's time that you should be spending selling that property to somebody clearly interested in it.
Last edited by TwinbrookNine; 11-27-2023 at 05:11 PM..
We're hoping to buy next year and seriously debating whether to use a buyer's agent or just hire a lawyer. We've purchased one home with a buyer's agent and one home without a buyer's agent. Likewise we've sold one home with a seller's agent and one without. I have found every real estate experience to be a nightmare, but the more people involved the worse it is.
One thing that complicates our decision about whether or not to use a buyer's agent is that we are house hunting in multiple different areas of a state, far enough apart that one agent would not have expertise in all of them. If we engaged a buyer's agent for each location we would inevitably be wasting multiple agents time because we're only buying one house.
If we find a house we want to buy, I want to do whatever will win the bidding war. I've tried to think about pros and cons of a buyer's agent in a multiple offer situation. If my offer is comparable to someone else's, and the only real difference is my offer gives the seller's agent the entire commission and the other offer requires the seller's agent to split the commission with a buyer's agent, I think not having an agent could work to my advantage. Especially if I am paying cash, have proof of funds, and am willing to do what it takes to prove to the seller I will be able to close. Also, without a separate agent of my own, I have a more direct line of communication with the seller to find out what they want, what's important to them, and therefor how to craft my offer. There are less people involved in the game of telephone to miscommunicate, misrepresent, misunderstand, etc. However, I think it's clear from this thread there are plenty of seller's agents who would hold me in contempt for daring to approach them as an unattached, unrepresented buyer. So that in itself is a reason to use an agent, it's almost like a virtue signal to other agents "I'm playing your game and I'm playing by your rules, I support your profession, I am not so arrogant as to assume realtors are unnecessary."
If I go agentless, my strategy would be to approach the seller's agent and say I'm interested in this house and if I buy it I want you to get the full commission. If for some reason you don't want the full commission and prefer for another agent to be involved, you can pick another agent to involve in the sale but it only applies to this specific house, I'm not taking them on as a buyers agent if this deal doesn't go through. I would not see that person as my advocate, just a technicality to fulfill the request of the seller's agent (which I would find a bizarre choice, but again this thread indicates there are agents who strongly prefer to split their commission and involve another agent. Fine with me if I want the house and it gets my offer accepted.)
In the event I choose to have a buyer's agent for my upcoming home purchase, my strategy for finding one has been to watch every sold listing in my target areas and find the sales that I feel were a good deal for the buyer (meaning if I was the buyer I'd be thrilled to get that property at that price.) I have then been contacting the agents who represented those buyers. (By the way in some cases the seller and buyer were represented by the same agent.) I ask them to tell me a little about the transaction and specifically how did they know what to bid. In every case so far the answer has been "my client offered asking price and did an escalation clause for the top number they were willing to pay." I haven't had any of them answer anything that indicates they played any role at all in figuring out the magic number. None of them even said anything like "my client wanted to cap the escalation at $400,000 but I urged her to go $404,900 because I knew that slightly higher number would have a better chance of winning out over other offers around the $400,000 mark." I didn't get any answers like "My client was willing to go to $450,000 but I knew we could get it for less and I didn't want her to show her cards that she could go that high." All of the answers were "meh, my client offered what they could offer." I was also informed in a couple cases their client's offer was not the highest bid but it was accepted over higher offers because it was all cash and the higher offer was not. I had thought having a buyer's agent could be helpful for strategizing in a bidding war, but that's not the impression I've gleaned from my interviews with agents. A buyer's top number and whether or not their offer is full cash are the factors that mattered and the agent had nothing to do with those factors. I can easily research on my own the % over asking homes are going for and I'm able to nail down details like % over asking for "outdated" vs "updated" homes or % over asking in this section of town vs that section of town. This gives me a good idea of what to bid, but I was hoping a really talented agent with bidding war experience would have figured out a cool formula to put me ahead of the pack. Like the people on Jeopardy who always know exactly what to wager in Final Jeopardy.
Another reason I was interested in using a buyers agent would be if there really are sales happening "behind the scenes" without the homes ever being for sale in the traditional sense. There has been a lot of speculation / rumors / assertions that homes are selling in private deals between realtors without the homeowner ever putting a sign out or advertising on the MLS. In this fantasy scenario a buyer's agent whispers to their client, "ya know... my firm has been approached by a client who is interested in selling but doesn't want to deal with open houses, dozens of showings, riff raff traipsing through... her house is just what you're looking for and I know she'd sell for X amount... the very price range you have in mind..." Multiple people have assured me these "backroom deals" are prevalent, you just have to link up with the right agent who has access to these sellers, but I haven't seen any concrete evidence. Would these sales show up on the MLS after they close? Because like I said I'm diligently keeping up with every sold listing and I can trace every closed sale to a for sale listing from ~2 months prior to closing.
There was one part of Diana's post that stood out to me as the best I could hope for from a buyer's agent:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook
As a buyer's agent we help clients who call or text us about a new house they saw that seems like a great bargain, and let them know I didn't send it to them it's because it's in the flood plain, or right next to RR tracks, or a rock quarry. If we go to look at homes, as a buyer's agent I look for things that might be red flags or deal breakers for their lender or will be costly needs in their future.
^Those specific examples "next to rr tracks, in a flood plain" I can and should figure out myself without any assistance from an agent (flood overlay on various maps including right on realtor .com, satellite imagery shows location of any wetlands, rr tracks, landfills, etc. around the home) That stuff is easy for me to figure out. But there are other things you can only know if you know the area like the back of your hand. Stuff that doesn't show up on a satellite map or a flood map or a sex offender registry, maybe stuff that doesn't even come up when you search on city-data forum, stuff that would never cross your mind as something to look into, stuff you only find out from living there. If a buyer's agent has that kind of deep, intricate knowledge, and a buyer is not as familiar with the neighborhood, and the buyer's agent truly cares about their client's satisfaction with their home purchase, then yes that agent is providing an invaluable service.
But then I think even if there are theoretical reasons to use a buyers agent, finding a good one seems pretty futile. I'd love to have an amazing buyer's agent but I don't have much hope I'll miraculously find that one in a million person and catch them at the right moment in their career when they have maximum ability, maximum drive, and also have time for me. The rare competent people get very popular and sought after, there's this brief window you have to catch them on the rise before they become so swamped and successful that they no longer have time to give their best to insignificant little clients like you. It seems like a fairytale to me that an agent is actually going to help me in any way. It's a nice dream, but very unlikely to be reality.
Location: Formerly Pleasanton Ca, now in Marietta Ga
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I used a buyers agent on two properties being sold together. I’m from California and now I’m in Georgia.
I can honestly say he guided me well and it was one of the toughest deals I ever did. I’ve bought maybe 60 properties and this was the most complex. Without him the deal would have fallen apart.
Obviously hire a good agent, not a newbie or part timer.
I've been through this once. My agent was a complete dunderhead. The seller's agent was an equal dunderhead. The seller turned out to be an old drinking buddy of mine, and we could have negotiated the sale over a few beers, and met with an attorney to finalize the transaction.
At closing, neither agent had any idea where any keys were. The seller followed me back to the house, and we split a six pack on the back deck after he gave me his keys.
I'm an economics graduate from a business school. I don't work in the field, but I follow local economic and real estate trends very closely. I've been a contributing ghost writer to some local publications in that field over the years.
There is very little the average agent can do that I can't. The affordability math can be calculated in a few minutes knowing your own income, other debts, down payment, interest rate, property tax rates, upper limit on purchase price, etc. It's a matter of "sliding the dials" from there within those maximums, or whatever maximum you are comfortable with.
By and large, realtors know next to nothing about technical details of home construction, systems, etc., to advise me on something of a technical nature I don't have expertise in. At best, they might be able to refer to another party, whom I could probably figure out on my own, to evaluate that question or problem.
Local information is easy to glean off of sites like C-D, NextDoor, Reddit, etc. I'm unlikely to have the same wants as a realtor who primarily services young families. Schools mean nothing to me, availability of things like rideshare and delivery services do. I can do all that legwork on my own.
In most cases, I just don't see the value-add there.
If my offer is full cash and I have proof of funds but no agent, would you worry about inability to close?...Shouldn't be any concerns about closing because I can show I have the cash.
I literally said in my first sentence "unless I had some good conversations with you and you seemed like a sane, rational person with a cash offer". I shouldn't need to repeat it, but I will. In a multiple offer scenario part of my fiduciary responsibility to my seller client is to advise which offer I think has the best chance to get to closing. The amount of commission I receive doesn't have any impact on which offer I believe is the strongest offer.
But then I think even if there are theoretical reasons to use a buyers agent, finding a good one seems pretty futile. I'd love to have an amazing buyer's agent but I don't have much hope I'll miraculously find that one in a million person and catch them at the right moment in their career when they have maximum ability, maximum drive, and also have time for me. The rare competent people get very popular and sought after, there's this brief window you have to catch them on the rise before they become so swamped and successful that they no longer have time to give their best to insignificant little clients like you. It seems like a fairytale to me that an agent is actually going to help me in any way. It's a nice dream, but very unlikely to be reality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Serious Conversation
Local information is easy to glean off of sites like C-D, NextDoor, Reddit, etc. I'm unlikely to have the same wants as a realtor who primarily services young families. Schools mean nothing to me, availability of things like rideshare and delivery services do. I can do all that legwork on my own.
In most cases, I just don't see the value-add there.
So I personally spend a couple hundred hours each year attending city meetings, reading local newspapers/newsletters, economic forecasts, market forecasts, etc so that I know what is going on. So here is what I would do if I were you.
1) It is okay to use different agents for different cities. Just let them know you are looking in multiple places.
2) Spend some time trying to read the local papers and find a couple of tidbits of information about something being built, a new park going in, etc in that city near where you are wanting to buy.
3) The agents that you are tracking are your interview pool. Talk to them on the phone and ask them about the tidbits that you found and see if they know the answer. Agents that spend their time reading and gaining local knowledge so that you don't have to should be able to answer all or some of your local questions. If they tell you they don't know all of the questions, move on to another agent as they aren't spending their non-client time learning.
You want an agent that values learning and knowledge. That is where you will find the experts.
I completely disagree that useful local information can be found on those sites. Most local residents do not follow city happenings the way an expert agent will. The listing agent is not your ally.
This is a true story from this summer. One of my clients wanted to write an offer quickly on a house in an upscale neighborhood that had a large vacant lot (250 acres) across the street that was up for sale. One home up the street had sold earlier and the next-door neighbor's house was under contract which is generally a red flag. Because I read everything I can get my hands on, I knew the zoning (mixed-use, farm use, and single-family residential) for that lot but I didn't have time to look up if there was a development application into the city and confirm that there wasn't a zoning change request. They wanted to write the offer anyway.
We go under contract within hours. I started to do my due diligence as their buyer agent and part of the lot (10 acres) had been split off and sold separately from the larger lot a few months prior. I looked up the owner of the land, and contacted them directly to find out their plans, and they were putting up 3-story apartments across the street from upscale homes. They gave me their preliminary proposal and drawings which I passed on to my clients.
On the seller's disclosures, there was NOTHING about this and they are required to disclose it. The agent was on the HOA board for the upscale neighborhood and he did not disclose it. So I get that everyone is focused on the listing agent getting their entire commission, but I am telling you, they are not your friends.
I actually called the buyer agent for the house next door as it sold right after we went under contract to see what the listing agent had told her about the development. She said she was told that apartments were going in farther down the road, which was completely untrue. They were going in across the street. I sent her the developer's drawings.
Needless to say, my clients terminated.
So, you can trust the listing agent and hope you get an ethical one, or spend some time finding an expert buyer agent. They are out there, but you have to decide you value expertise and not door openers.
It is also my general experience that you stay away from buyer agents who are part of teams. I know Brandon will disagree with this since he runs a big team, but I am generally not impressed with those buyer agents.
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