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Oh geez - this sll sounds like a desperate attempt at remaining relevant. Anyone with gumption can easily do this on their own behalf. Times are a changin- better get used to it.
This started as a text, “Are you still in real estate?”
“Yes”
“Great I was wondering if I could hire you to write an offer on a off market smoke damaged house.”
“Have you seen it?”
“Not in person, I looked at the pictures on zillow.”
“I think you should see it in person before you make an offer.”
“I do not live in Colorado yet.”
“Well, I can do a FaceTime or video while I am at the property.”
“I don’t need that, can you just write the offer? I’ll give you my email address.”
“Let me look into it, what is the property address?”
I look up the property on Zillow since it is not on the mls. I look at the public records. I google the address.
“I am sorry, I can’t help you.”
“Isn’t it your job to help buyers buy houses?”
“Yes, but this house in one of four houses left in a neighborhood that was destroyed by the Marshall fire two years ago.”
“Oh, ok, I didn’t know that.”
Three weeks later, Buyer calls, “Will you help me buy a house? I can’t do this from far away.”
What I do requires a license, community knowledge, competency, contract expertise and a willingness to educate the client at each and every step to insure that they make the best decisions they are able.
If I do my job to the best of my ability, I stand a good chance of getting paid. I have dedicated 34 years of my life for this career. I take classes in topics from contracts to cybersecurity, from water law to zoning and adu additions. I do not believe that anyone, including a lawyer can do this job better. And like MikeJ I have represented lawyers and commercial brokers often in my career.
This is a true story from this summer. One of my clients wanted to write an offer quickly on a house in an upscale neighborhood that had a large vacant lot (250 acres) across the street that was up for sale. One home up the street had sold earlier and the next-door neighbor's house was under contract which is generally a red flag. Because I read everything I can get my hands on, I knew the zoning (mixed-use, farm use, and single-family residential) for that lot but I didn't have time to look up if there was a development application into the city and confirm that there wasn't a zoning change request. They wanted to write the offer anyway.
We go under contract within hours. I started to do my due diligence as their buyer agent and part of the lot (10 acres) had been split off and sold separately from the larger lot a few months prior. I looked up the owner of the land, and contacted them directly to find out their plans, and they were putting up 3-story apartments across the street from upscale homes. They gave me their preliminary proposal and drawings which I passed on to my clients.
On the seller's disclosures, there was NOTHING about this and they are required to disclose it. The agent was on the HOA board for the upscale neighborhood and he did not disclose it. So I get that everyone is focused on the listing agent getting their entire commission, but I am telling you, they are not your friends.
I actually called the buyer agent for the house next door as it sold right after we went under contract to see what the listing agent had told her about the development. She said she was told that apartments were going in farther down the road, which was completely untrue. They were going in across the street. I sent her the developer's drawings.
Needless to say, my clients terminated.
That buyer was lucky to have you. It blows my mind that someone who cares about undesirable development near their home would even look at a property across from huge acreage of vacant land, let alone acreage for sale!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverfall
So, you can trust the listing agent and hope you get an ethical one, or spend some time finding an expert buyer agent. They are out there, but you have to decide you value expertise and not door openers.
You've made me think here about the pitfalls of using the seller's agent as my "agent", which I had previously thought of as not having any representation, but you've opened my eyes that it could be worse than no representation in the case of an unethical agent. I would have to be 100% confident in my ability to find any and all potential problems with the home (through my own research, professional inspection, etc.) The question comes in for me, who do I think is more capable and motivated to find those problems, me or an agent? I think there are very special and unique agents out there that might be able to alert me to things I would not have figured out on my own. But I know most agents are not as obsessive a researcher as I am and certainly no one has more motivation than me when it comes to making sure I'm picking exactly the right home. So the feeling I'm left with is, I'd love to have a really awesome buyer's agent on my side but it just seems so improbable that I am somehow going to find that one in a million person.
That buyer was lucky to have you. It blows my mind that someone who cares about undesirable development near their home would even look at a property across from huge acreage of vacant land, let alone acreage for sale!
You've made me think here about the pitfalls of using the seller's agent as my "agent", which I had previously thought of as not having any representation, but you've opened my eyes that it could be worse than no representation in the case of an unethical agent. I would have to be 100% confident in my ability to find any and all potential problems with the home (through my own research, professional inspection, etc.) The question comes in for me, who do I think is more capable and motivated to find those problems, me or an agent? I think there are very special and unique agents out there that might be able to alert me to things I would not have figured out on my own. But I know most agents are not as obsessive a researcher as I am and certainly no one has more motivation than me when it comes to making sure I'm picking exactly the right home. So the feeling I'm left with is, I'd love to have a really awesome buyer's agent on my side but it just seems so improbable that I am somehow going to find that one in a million person.
I've always done extensive due diligence on properties when buying, especially when buying land. I once bought a lot that the listing agent had described as "having a hole that filled with water when it rained", when it actually had a nice pond with a stream running through it which was the primary reason for the purchase. This past year I purchase my lakeside lot, after 3 attempts, using a buyers agent. He provided me with a lot of information gleaned from the sellers agent that, while it didn't really affect negotiations, kept me interested despite the long slog. I also knew that there were restrictions on the lot which the sellers either ignored or were ignorant of, having never been there. My buyers agent stuck with me through the long, drawn-out process and we finally prevailed, plus I paid half of the original asking price.
I've always done extensive due diligence on properties when buying, especially when buying land. I once bought a lot that the listing agent had described as "having a hole that filled with water when it rained", when it actually had a nice pond with a stream running through it which was the primary reason for the purchase. This past year I purchase my lakeside lot, after 3 attempts, using a buyers agent. He provided me with a lot of information gleaned from the sellers agent that, while it didn't really affect negotiations, kept me interested despite the long slog. I also knew that there were restrictions on the lot which the sellers either ignored or were ignorant of, having never been there. My buyers agent stuck with me through the long, drawn-out process and we finally prevailed, plus I paid half of the original asking price.
That must be satisfying to own it after 3 previous attempts and to get it for half the asking price. Were your prior attempts to buy the lot with or without that buyer's agent? (By the way that is so funny someone referred to a pond as a hole full of rainwater hahaha!)
Now I'm weighing these 2 concepts against one another:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverfall
The listing agent is not your ally.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJaquish
I might use the listing agent if I was a buyer.
It would let me put the listing agent into dual agency, unable to offer advice and counsel to the seller.
Here's my thought process:
The listing agent is not my ally. Even if I make that agent my representative in order to give them the full commission, they are still not my ally. And they could be my adversary. I cannot assume the agent will be ethical. (Thank you Silverfall for coming up with a way to make me see that adversary part.) This has given me a reason not to go for dual agency as a buyer.
BUT if I do make the listing agent my agent (dual agency), I'm basically taking away the seller's representation according to Mike's statement (they'd be "unable to offer advice and counsel to the seller.") I never expected that's really how it would work. My reason for doing the dual agent route as a buyer has been as a way to get the seller's agent to want me to be the one who gets the house, and to nudge their seller in my direction. I didn't realize there's another reason to do the dual agent thing: the listing agent is not my ally, and if I make them my agent, now they're not really the ally of the seller either. So it's a more even playing field in theory. Both parties are functionally unrepresented and we can just use the agent as a neutral intermediary with a more direct line of communication than if an additional agent was involved.
But then I go back to Silverfall's lesson: don't assume the agent will be ethical. So even if there's some ethics rule that says dual agents are not supposed to advise the seller, I can't assume they'll follow that rule.
Now I'm weighing these 2 concepts against one another:
Here's my thought process:
The listing agent is not my ally. Even if I make that agent my representative in order to give them the full commission, they are still not my ally. And they could be my adversary. I cannot assume the agent will be ethical. (Thank you Silverfall for coming up with a way to make me see that adversary part.) This has given me a reason not to go for dual agency as a buyer.
BUT if I do make the listing agent my agent (dual agency), I'm basically taking away the seller's representation according to Mike's statement (they'd be "unable to offer advice and counsel to the seller.") I never expected that's really how it would work. My reason for doing the dual agent route as a buyer has been as a way to get the seller's agent to want me to be the one who gets the house, and to nudge their seller in my direction. I didn't realize there's another reason to do the dual agent thing: the listing agent is not my ally, and if I make them my agent, now they're not really the ally of the seller either.So it's a more even playing field in theory. Both parties are functionally unrepresented and we can just use the agent as a neutral intermediary with a more direct line of communication than if an additional agent was involved.
But then I go back to Silverfall's lesson: don't assume the agent will be ethical. So even if there's some ethics rule that says dual agents are not supposed to advise the seller, I can't assume they'll follow that rule.
And, this mushy middle is why for several years, I strongly urged my clients to not allow dual agency in their listing agreements or buyers agency agreements.
Particularly first timers, who definitely need an advocate and a coach.
I always told them if we bumped into a perfect situation, we could revisit the topic, but not to give away fiduciary responsibilities of the agent right up front.
Well, my story (we've all got stories) was the agent (we had not signed a formal contract but she'd shown us several houses) who preferred sitting at the computer to driving. We were driving three or four areas of interest, and one day we saw a new for sale sign. Called the agent we'd been working with - ”have you seen anything new in [XYZ]area?” ”Oh, no, there's nothing new for sale there.” OK! Called listing agent. She made sure OUR offer went through. She made sure the seller signed the documents (the seller was 200 miles away and said ”I'm too busy to sign documents”). The listing agent, for that extra ~$5000, got it done.
Sure, if you get a live wire buyer's agent, or if you can't read a contract and refrain from signing it till you fully understand it, or if you're easily gulled, you'd be better off with ”your own” agent. Also, if you're coming in from out of town and you have no idea about the different areas of town, or if you've never lived in a house before and you don't know about things like ”don't buy a house at the bottom of a draw”, then yeah, you will probably do better engaging an agent on your side.
If you've done negotiations before, if you have good reading comprehension, if you find a house and you're not locked to a buyer's agent, if you aren't afraid to rely on your own judgement, then you have the option to simply get in touch with the listing agent and work that way.
Well, my story (we've all got stories) was the agent (we had not signed a formal contract but she'd shown us several houses) who preferred sitting at the computer to driving. We were driving three or four areas of interest, and one day we saw a new for sale sign. Called the agent we'd been working with - ”have you seen anything new in [XYZ]area?” ”Oh, no, there's nothing new for sale there.” OK! Called listing agent. She made sure OUR offer went through. She made sure the seller signed the documents (the seller was 200 miles away and said ”I'm too busy to sign documents”). The listing agent, for that extra ~$5000, got it done.
Sure, if you get a live wire buyer's agent, or if you can't read a contract and refrain from signing it till you fully understand it, or if you're easily gulled, you'd be better off with ”your own” agent. Also, if you're coming in from out of town and you have no idea about the different areas of town, or if you've never lived in a house before and you don't know about things like ”don't buy a house at the bottom of a draw”, then yeah, you will probably do better engaging an agent on your side.
If you've done negotiations before, if you have good reading comprehension, if you find a house and you're not locked to a buyer's agent, if you aren't afraid to rely on your own judgement, then you have the option to simply get in touch with the listing agent and work that way.
You failed to mention an agent's training in the applicable case laws and meanings of the contracts they use.
Many consumers think reading is the answer, but without education and training, reading is generally just reading.
Good agents go to endless meetings and sessions to learn their forms and regulations updates and the reasoning therefore. How does that work for a consumer?
Examples from my state and market:
When will closing happen?
At one point, "...reasonable delay..." was baked into our standard REALTOR contracts, but "reasonable" was never clearly defined.
So, a judge held that a delay was acceptable, as long as the party closed within 365 days of the contract closing date.
That is something any trained agent should have been taught, but not something a typical consumer might know or find.
That mess was fixed in an update several years ago, as forms are routinely updated.
Property Disclosure:
"A seller doesn't have to disclose anything." Believed by many consumers, and sadly by many agents.
Actually, a seller must disclose known hidden issues that are not discoverable with non-intrusive, non-destructive inspections.
We had a fun dustup on NextDoor, where a potential buyer lost a $20,000 Due Diligence Fee because he backed out of a contract after home inspection.
"How horrible!"
All easily avoidable.
"Foundation issues."
Yup. The photos left all the evidence necessary. And, having been in that neighborhood many times, I knew that almost every house had some sort of visible cracking in the concrete slab.
I used to walk clients around the house, point out the crack in the side of the slab, turn them around to look at the house next door, and show an identical crack directly across the 15' yard between them. Time and again. Sometimes no big deal, but quite often dramatic.
But... "The photos left all the evidence necessary."
Yup.
The builder used glue-down engineered wood flooring on the main level. From one side to another, you could see an 1/8th inch gap between two courses of wood. I knew where the slab crack was before I was out of my jammies and finished my first cup of coffee.
When I got to the house to see... I noticed another through the rear-entry garage, and another in the screened porch.
What I couldn't see in the photos was the 3/4+" low spot in the breakfast room, near the garage and screen porch door. someone must have sat on the concrete form before the pour.
But, on the second and third level, I could certainly see the doors that bound in the jambs from being out of square.
Anyone, ANY agent, who worked that neighborhood should have known ahead of time or should have spotted the issues. The price of hiring a dunce, methinks. The cost of not having a clue.
A good agent will save a great many Buyer clients the costs of inspection, worry about EMDs, lost time, and in my market, 5 figure non-refundable DD Fees.
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