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Raising a child is the singlemost important thing a COUPLE can do.
A man and a woman joined together in thought and deed and holy matrimony.
Not everyone agrees with me.
Again, I think it is their choice. I don`t think it is the most important thing in their relationship. A man and a woman, joined in holy matrimony....Yep!
And I'm assuming most of the posters on here have children, and are much older than I am--so no you wouldn't have a similar view now would you? Have you noticed that there are plenty of women who plan to remain childless? There was a recent article on msn--I will get the link and post it soon.
I'm not that much older than you. My best friend had a baby when we were 18; I think she got pregnant our first night at college . I was at the point in my life where I didn't want to be bothered with kids but I didn't wanna lose my best friend either.
So I didn't ask her to go clubbing on Tuesday nights; instead we went to early movies during the week where no one would care if the kid made a little noise or not. Or we'd meet for lunch instead of dinner. We'd plan ahead and go get our nails and hair done at the same time. And sometimes I would go to her place just to hang out. She was important to me so I just made it work and it didn't take huge effort on my part.
By the time I had my own child her's was walking and talking and in school so she ended up doing a lot of accommodating for me and my life.
I guess it just depends on how important the friendship is.
And why should her friend have to make friends with people who are married and have kids? I don't pick my friends based on whether they're single and don't have kids.
Right now, it sounds like her friend has made no new friends and has no friends wherever she is living two hours away from the OP. And the OP says that the rest of their collective friends are all still single and childfree.
So it makes sense to me that the OP's friend needs to make some new good friends who live in her same area. And if those new friends are also married and with young children, then they will have more in common with each other, and also be willing to do activities where their children are running around underfoot.
If the OP makes new friends with other single women who are still childfree, she will be frustrated when these new friends go out clubbing (like young single childfree women like to do) and she will feel left out. And when the OP's friend goes out to dinner with her friends, while her friends who are still single flirt with cute guys, being married, she's not supposed to do that.
And you being a guy, whether or not your guy friends are married with kids isn't as big a deal, as the primary care of the young kids is usually the duty of their mothers. And married with kids or single without kids, guys will still talk about sports and guy stuff. But with women, single women are more interested in shopping, night life and trying to date cute guys. Once they have kids, they tend to talk about mothering stuff.
Ashcody, I am like most of the people who have responded to you in that I am only dismayed by your apparent lack of empathy to person who called you friend. I do not begrude your lack of attraction to children. I have children and I can completely understand this mentality. I have never met a beautiful baby other than my own.
My wife swoons over every baby she sees and insists I come look. I dutifully come over, take a peek and say "Yep. That sure is a baby." My wife rolls her eyes and mutters "Men!" She knows I get no thrill from strangers' children, but because it seems to please her I go look anyway.
Most of us are not saying you have to like children or devote your life to entertaining them. We are just pointing out that a major part of friendship is accommodation and self sacrifice to assist the other person. Your lack of empathy for her situation is what appalls us. Getting a 1 year old and all of their necessary gear for a afternoon outing together is about the same as you packing for a two week vacation. It is not for the faint of heart and certainly not welcome when the destination only promises to be one where the child is expected to sit quietly and be ignored. I am fairly certain that you probably have little tells to indicate when you are irritated by either the child or the mother's attention to the child instead of you. That is why she resists making the trip to see you. She can recognize your irritation, even if you don't realize you are broadcasting it. That probably makes her as uncomfortable as the child does you.
But with women, single women are more interested in shopping, night life and trying to date cute guys. Once they have kids, they tend to talk about mothering stuff.
Oops no one told me I was supposed to talk about mothering stuff and here I was talking about music, shopping, current events, movies and other non-mothering stuff....boy my single child-free kids must think I'm a horrible parent.
Oops no one told me I was supposed to talk about mothering stuff and here I was talking about music, shopping, current events, movies and other non-mothering stuff....boy my single child-free kids must think I'm a horrible parent.
I know moms have their lives of mothering stuff. Do you live and die for it. It has to be a time you want to talk about something else.
I listen to her and my girlfriend listens to me. Sometimes, her son never comes up, when we are out.
Wow, Nat. According to some of the moms here, it's unheard of. Having a life outside of your kids, husband and home.
Ashcody, I am like most of the people who have responded to you in that I am only dismayed by your apparent lack of empathy to person who called you friend. I do not begrude your lack of attraction to children. I have children and I can completely understand this mentality. I have never met a beautiful baby other than my own.
My wife swoons over every baby she sees and insists I come look. I dutifully come over, take a peek and say "Yep. That sure is a baby." My wife rolls her eyes and mutters "Men!" She knows I get no thrill from strangers' children, but because it seems to please her I go look anyway.
Most of us are not saying you have to like children or devote your life to entertaining them. We are just pointing out that a major part of friendship is accommodation and self sacrifice to assist the other person. Your lack of empathy for her situation is what appalls us. Getting a 1 year old and all of their necessary gear for a afternoon outing together is about the same as you packing for a two week vacation. It is not for the faint of heart and certainly not welcome when the destination only promises to be one where the child is expected to sit quietly and be ignored. I am fairly certain that you probably have little tells to indicate when you are irritated by either the child or the mother's attention to the child instead of you. That is why she resists making the trip to see you. She can recognize your irritation, even if you don't realize you are broadcasting it. That probably makes her as uncomfortable as the child does you.
Apparently I can't rep you again so soon. Sorry! Good post. A home that is not childproofed ... going there is no fun with a crawler or toddler. At least at the mom's house, she knows the kid can play somewhere safely.
And ashcody, I know you said you haven't broadcast your disdain for the baby, but 1) weren't you vocal about your dislike of other people's kids before the baby came along? she knows how you feel, and 2) you call the baby "it."
The only ones who are offended are the ones who have children...so I'd rather not hear from them since they are obviously going to side with the mother.
OP, you were never her friend to begin with. Stop fooling yourself. Friends support each other through all circumstances in life.
Her 'child' is over 2 years old. You call her a kid,
it, child, baby, and daughter. All lower-case, and
once you compare her daughter to your pets.
Does she have a name? You never mention it.
She is not a person to you. Children are the
extension of us. If you reject our child, you . .
. . reject us.
This whole thread is about trying to make you
feel better about dumping your 'friend'. I don't
want to play anymore.
The arguments that I hear form childfree people about why they don't want children center around the fact that they want to be able to travel, they love their free time blah blah.
And exactly how does that qualify as being selfish? If I say I don't want to be a doctor because I want to be home by 6:00 and don't want patients calling me on my free time, does that mean I'm selfish? Of course not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by miu
So it makes sense to me that the OP's friend needs to make some new good friends who live in her same area. And if those new friends are also married and with young children, then they will have more in common with each other, and also be willing to do activities where their children are running around underfoot.
If the OP makes new friends with other single women who are still childfree, she will be frustrated when these new friends go out clubbing (like young single childfree women like to do) and she will feel left out. And when the OP's friend goes out to dinner with her friends, while her friends who are still single flirt with cute guys, being married, she's not supposed to do that.
And you being a guy, whether or not your guy friends are married with kids isn't as big a deal, as the primary care of the young kids is usually the duty of their mothers. And married with kids or single without kids, guys will still talk about sports and guy stuff. But with women, single women are more interested in shopping, night life and trying to date cute guys. Once they have kids, they tend to talk about mothering stuff.
Why should someone with kids only associate with someone else who has kids? Because they have kids? So what if that gives something more in common? That's like saying women should favor being friends with other women or that blacks should prefer making friends with other blacks. My friendships aren't based on whether the other person is male or female, single or married, or childfree or not. If I'm going to form a bond with someone, I'd prefer it be on something more meaningful like shared hobbies and interests.
And you assume that as a guy, my friends with kids are guys. Not all of them are. I have a number of friends who are women who also happen to have kids. Sure, they can't always get together because they have kids to worry about. But when we do get together, we don't just talk about mothering stuff. I'm noticing a bias among the childfree on this thread that think the people with kids talk only about their kids and nothing else. My friendships contradict this.
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And married with kids or single without kids, guys will still talk about sports and guy stuff. But with women, single women are more interested in shopping, night life and trying to date cute guys. Once they have kids, they tend to talk about mothering stuff.
and here I was talking about music, shopping, current events, movies and other non-mothering stuff....boy my single child-free kids must think I'm a horrible parent.
