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Did it ever occur to you that the woman might've just been nervous about meeting you? Maybe after emailing and talking on the phone, she was afraid of not living up to your expectations. If she didn't want to meet, I doubt she would've sent you that email the next day. Maybe she felt bad about what happened and worried that you would think she was just playing games. What's clear is that she gave you an opening to ask her out again. Yes, it would've been nice if she picked the time and place and asked you to meet her. But truthfully, I think you're making a big deal out of nothing. The dating world is full of people who play games, but I think you need to learn to give people the benefit of the doubt before dismissing them so quickly. You talk about not wanting to jump through her hoops. And yet, by not setting another date and waiting to see how she would react, aren't you testing her as well? I agree that a man has to draw the line, but I think you drew it way too early.
I had an experience very similar to yours. A coworker set me up on a blind date. We exchanged emails and were supposed to meet for lunch. But that morning, she emailed saying she had a meeting at work and couldn't meet. I accepted it at face value even though part of me wondered if I was being stood up. She apologized for having to cancel, but didn't ask if I wanted to reschedule. I asked her though. So we set another date and finally met in person. And the best part was that she picked up the tab cause she felt bad about canceling the first time and wanted to make it up to me.
I totally agree with this.
She and her girlfriends sat around talking and got her so nervous she couldn't go through with it. Then felt really bad later so she emailed.
I would give her another chance.
You have to explain to her how you thought you were being played. Just so she knows you are serious and it will make her understand why you got 'standoffish'
I had an experience very similar to yours. A coworker set me up on a blind date. We exchanged emails and were supposed to meet for lunch. But that morning, she emailed saying she had a meeting at work and couldn't meet. I accepted it at face value even though part of me wondered if I was being stood up. She apologized for having to cancel, but didn't ask if I wanted to reschedule. I asked her though. So we set another date and finally met in person. And the best part was that she picked up the tab cause she felt bad about canceling the first time and wanted to make it up to me.
Ha, I've missed this post! In order to evaluate this experience, I'd like to know what happened AFTER that date - in other words, what the progress of this encounter was, if there was any at all.
If he asks her out again, after she clearly blew him off the first time, he looks desperate, and no attractive woman in her prime wants a desperate man if she has tall, high status hunks to choose from. I know it doesn't seem like a big deal to invite her out again, but our actions dictate our thinking, and he'll take this approach with all women.
The logical thinking man says to himself: "What's the big deal? She couldn't make it the first time, I'll just ask again." The woman, on a subconscious level, thinks to herself: "This guy must not be able to get any dates at all considering the fact that I cancelled on him but yet he's still jumping at the chance to ask me out. I can do better." The best thing this guy can do is to leave her alone and continue asking out other girls.
This is the problem right here. Too many guys wasting time trying to get into her head and deciding what to do based not on what they want to do, but on what they think her reaction will be. In other words, you're overthinking it. Women do this too. A guy calls and they have this internal debate about when's too soon to return his call. If I call back now he might think I'm desperate and have no life.
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee
Yes. Missing one date is "blowing him off." Women, even very attractive women, throw themselves at men all the time. I bet you this girl would have proposed an alternative date if the OP was a neurosurgeon who could pass for Paul Walker's identical twin. The notion that a man should be the one to pursue is stupid. In fact, women love the feeling of chasing and winning over a man that other women find desirable. Many attractive women won't have it any other way. It's exciting.
What's not exciting is the typical, supplicating beta male who lets women get away with whimsical behavior, including cancelling a date one hour beforehand. Women, especially young and attractive women, do these types of things all the time. As they age out of attractiveness, and their options shrink, this behavior "coincidentally" ceases. It's very simple: when people have power, they tend to abuse it. A woman's looks are power, and many of them abuse that power.
You sound just like betamanlet. So basically you're penalizing one woman for the behavior of others. Would it be fair if a woman prejudged you based on all the bad experiences she's had with other men?
Ha, I've missed this post! In order to evaluate this experience, I'd like to know what happened AFTER that date - in other words, what the progress of this encounter was, if there was any at all.
We went back to her place.
OK, not after that date. But we did end up dating for about a month. Things eventually fizzled out though. We really didn't have enough in common to make a long-term relationship work. But we parted on good terms. She added me on LinkedIn and even referred me for a job. The point is that neither of us made a big deal out of that first missed meeting. Things happen in life and sometimes you just miss appointments. What most of us expect is that the people we inconvenience will be understanding and at least give us a second chance to prove that we're not all just a bunch of liars. However it seems like some people in this thread like the OP are so convinced that women are all a bunch of players that now they look at everything through that prism, seeing games where there may not be any.
This is the problem right here. Too many guys wasting time trying to get into her head and deciding what to do based not on what they want to do, but on what they think her reaction will be. In other words, you're overthinking it. Women do this too. A guy calls and they have this internal debate about when's too soon to return his call. If I call back now he might think I'm desperate and have no life.
It's quite the opposite. The OP should actually be out talking to other girls. If she doesn't jump at the opportunity to go out with him, then that's her loss. There's no need to ask again. You don't see Harvard chasing down people to go there, do you? On the other hand, you see University of Phoenix commericals all the time. Which school do you think most people want to attend?
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Originally Posted by DennyCrane
Would it be fair if a woman prejudged you based on all the bad experiences she's had with other men?
My advice has nothing to do with "all the bad experiences" I've had with women. Like most human beings, I've had some bad, some wonderful, some depressing, and some exhilirating experiences with members of the opposite sex. My advice is intended to maximize the OP's wonderful/exhilirating experiences with women at the expense of his bad/depressing experiences. And what's more depressing than getting repeatedly shot down because you have no idea what really drives female mate selection?
OK, not after that date. But we did end up dating for about a month. Things eventually fizzled out though. We really didn't have enough in common to make a long-term relationship work. But we parted on good terms. She added me on LinkedIn and even referred me for a job.
Good.
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The point is that neither of us made a big deal out of that first missed meeting. Things happen in life and sometimes you just miss appointments. What most of us expect is that the people we inconvenience will be understanding and at least give us a second chance to prove that we're not all just a bunch of liars.
It's entirely possible. I'm not saying it isn't or that I have or will cut off somebody just because he happened not to be able to make it. People have to be more careful about misinterpretations this early on, though, and I still believe whoever was responsible for the cancellation should show some more initiative for the next plan.
My policy was (and is), if you cancel on me, then it's up to you to suggest another meet. If you cancel that, it's all but certain you won't get another opportunity. Some reasons are valid, and I'll accept those - if I believe you.
Here's the story: A couple of months ago, I was corresponding with a woman on-line. We met through a personal ad. We exchanged maybe a half-dozen e-mails, all of which were friendly/interesting. We then spoke on the phone and had a similarly friendly and relaxed conversation. Our e-mails and phone talk were enjoyable and seemed encouraging.
I suggested a meeting so we set up a time/place for the following day at a coffee shop close to where she works. About an hour before the scheduled time, she called and said something at work had come up and she couldn't make it. I understood and thanked her for calling. She did not suggest an alternate time or plan but simply apologized and left it at that.
Later, I did wonder if her excuse had been legitimate or if she had simply changed her mind about meeting. Who knows? Maybe she had even found someone else. I felt if she had been interested she likely would have suggested another time and place to meet but she didn't.
The next day, I received an e-mail from her apologizing once again for the cancellation. The final line she wrote is the reason for this post and which still rankles me to this day.
She wrote, and I quote, "Sorry again about missing you. The next time you make a date, I'll be sure to show up."
Why the hell was it up to me to make still ANOTHER date!? Since she's the one who cancelled the 1st time, shouldn't she take the next step in making the next arrangement?
Shouldn't these things really be shared equally by both people? Shouldn't she take at least part of the responsibility in getting this thing off the ground? I mean, we are adults here and not high school kids. I just felt she wanted to see how many hoops I would jump through and how many carrots she could dangle before I took the bait.
I sent her an e-mail along the lines of "yeah, too bad, maybe next time" and just left it at that. I determined I wouldn't set the next date and wanted to see what would happen.
Of course, nothing happened. I never heard from her again. Maybe she's still waiting for me to ask her out again, who knows? I was sick to death of the games though. We may have been a good match. We certainly got along well through e-mails and call. A man's got to draw the line somewhere though.
Anyway, I'd be interested in hearing from both men and women about this situation. How would you have handled it? Anyone have similar experiences?
You both have the social graces of a goat.
1. Your prior communications were friendly and interesting. You tossed that out the window.
2. She apologized, not once, but twice. You tossed that out the window, too.
3. She tried to hint that she'd like to see you again. She bungled it. She should have said, "Are you up for a raincheck?" A truly gracious woman would have added, "My treat."
4. Nonetheless, you chose to assume the worst of her, despite your previous positive communications and her apologies.
Both of you need to go to charm school. You more than her, though. People are not perfect. If you are going to be that quick to see the worst in someone and that quick to disregard all the good that went before a social faux pas that you chose to catastrophize into a personal insult worthy of announcing your fatigue to the entire world on a message board, you shouldn't be dating. You don't have the patience for humanity.
It's quite the opposite. The OP should actually be out talking to other girls. If she doesn't jump at the opportunity to go out with him, then that's her loss. There's no need to ask again. You don't see Harvard chasing down people to go there, do you? On the other hand, you see University of Phoenix commericals all the time. Which school do you think most people want to attend?
If she doesn't jump at the opportunity? So you make no room for the possibility that she might've actually been stuck at work? Asking her out a second time isn't chasing her down since she gave him an opening. It's not like she just canceled and never spoke to him again. If that had been the case, then I agree he shouldn't ask her out again. But since she made it clear that she's still interested, he loses nothing by asking again. As for your Harvard analogy, imagine if you were scheduled to interview with Harvard and at the last minute, they called you to say they had to cancel your interview date but that you were free to call and reschedule? Would you nurse your bruised ego and say no thanks. Or would you say "OK, these things happen so I'll just reschedule."
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Originally Posted by BajanYankee
And what's more depressing than getting repeatedly shot down because you have no idea what really drives female mate selection?
Where's the repeatedly part? She canceled on him once and he's all ready to declare her a game player. One missed appointment is hardly evidence of a pattern of behavior.
It's entirely possible. I'm not saying it isn't or that I have or will cut off somebody just because he happened not to be able to make it. People have to be more careful about misinterpretations this early on, though, and I still believe whoever was responsible for the cancellation should show some more initiative for the next plan.
Whether she should've been the one to suggest an alternative time and place is a separate issue, but I can certainly understand why the OP felt like she should've been the one to do so. The point is that she gave him an opening. It's not like she canceled and then he never heard from her again. If that were the case, then I'd tell him to just move on. And you're right in saying that people have to be careful about misinterpreting things early on. It seems to me that the OP did just that. He was far too quick to think the worst of this person rather than give her the benefit of the doubt.
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