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Ivorytickler, I'm sorry about the problems you're facing with infidelity; but from my perspective, it doesn't seem like you've really forgiven your husband. I'm not excusing what he did, but there's still a great deal of bitterness in your posts. You can't forgive and remain bitter at the same time--it's contradictory. And to tell you the truth, even if he was "at fault", you're really hurting yourself by remaining bitter.
I do agree that cheating is a selfish thing to do. However, there are other ways one can act selfish without cheating. Believe it or not, self-pity is also a form of selfishness: anytime one focuses more on her/himself than s/he should, it's selfish. Think about that....
Look in the mirror and (really) let it go. You will feel better, and you will be doing your kids a real favor by showing them you can forgive and go on in life, instead of letting bitterness overtake your life.
I really don't know where posters get off telling me I haven't forgiven him when I've said I have. The problem isn't forgiveness. It's inability to trust. Forgiving someone and going back for more are two different things. You can forgive them yet protect yourself. "Letting it go" doesn't mean going back for more. What do you do with someone you can't trust? It's only a matter of time before it happens again. He is who he is. There's nothing I can do to change that.
And there's no bitterness. It is what it is and I can't change it. I can be ready when it happens again though. I can protect my heart so he can't hurt me again. He is, seriously, the one person on the face of this earth I thought would never do this. I was wrong.
I am trying to figure out the reasons that drives men to seek relationship away from their marriage.
Would you admit it was selfish?
Was there something a lot more complex than just being selfish?
Could anything have been done by a spouse that would have prevented it?
Did you regret your cheating and thought it was a mistake?
Would you try to reconcile with your wife?
Women's opinion is also welcome.
Lack of willpower and character on the part of the man. Some men simply aren't worthy. I don't care much for guys like that!
I really don't know where posters get off telling me I haven't forgiven him when I've said I have. The problem isn't forgiveness. It's inability to trust. Forgiving someone and going back for more are two different things. You can forgive them yet protect yourself. "Letting it go" doesn't mean going back for more. What do you do with someone you can't trust? It's only a matter of time before it happens again. He is who he is. There's nothing I can do to change that.
And there's no bitterness. It is what it is and I can't change it. I can be ready when it happens again though. I can protect my heart so he can't hurt me again. He is, seriously, the one person on the face of this earth I thought would never do this. I was wrong.
Whether you think so or not, there's a lot of anger in your post toward him and anyone who's cheated. The amount of resentment you indicate in your posts is apparent to the rest of us who read them. It doesn't seem as if you really healed from the hurt. I know the trust may be hard, but think about the message you're sending your children: that a man can never be trusted again after he's done wrong.
You may see him as a "cheater" now, but I'm sure there was a time when he wasn't. He probably was and is still a great man in other ways. Instead of dwelling on what he did wrong, think of the things he (still) does right. Does your husband regret what he did? Does he want to work things out again? You are right that you cannot change him, but you can change your perspective.
I don’t really support the idea of a man cheating because there was no sex in his marriage, or any reason for that matter. It is well known that sex decreases once the relationship gets formal and even more once married, so how can a guy be surprised because there is no sex in his marriage? Come on.
Yes, men and women cheat for selfish reasons. Can’t see a reason to justify a cheating wife/husband.
There is a difference between having sex everyday prior to marriage, then 2 or 3 times a week after marriage to 0 times a week. If I stopped having sex with my husband for a year or two, I would be mystified if he did not cheat.
"I'm fairly certain that some of these people consider how their partner would feel."
You inquired about the unavailable men I was with. I found out later that they were taken. I never would have been with them if I knew the truth. Til today, married men hit on me and when I question them, they laugh and say, "Hey, I'm a guy!" It seems like it's a joke to them. They are blatant & nonchalant.
Apparently, this has happened more than once. So, let's say there were 5. You either knew or you're really, really bad at picking up on the cues. 5 is not an accurate representation of all men who cheat. If it was 2, even less so. Even all those others who hit on you, who ALL said "Hey, I'm a guy." are not an accurate representation of all men who cheat.
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Now, the great reasons as to why some would cheat is what was posted before like unable to have sex with their S.O.'s. Those were people suffering long term illnesses. Some were terminal, other's severe but lasted years and never once did their partners have a desire to cheat as their love & caring for their partner surpassed their own physical needs (my experience going through the wellness center group counseling).
I did say earlier, short of something beyond your control, why should anyone not be able to make love to their partner? But, I'm sensing a pattern here. They ALL said they wouldn't cheat? I guess I can believe this to a degree. For one thing, this is not something that could be helped (the men I am referring to are being neglected and denied). And it wouldn't really go over well with the group if they actually admitted to wanting to cheat on their dying wife. So, yeah, you'd probably find more men refusing to cheat in this type of situation. ALL of them, I doubt it.
Regardless, if it is wrong, wrong, wrong, there should be NO acceptable reason, least of all because their spouse is ill . That seems way backwards to me.
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It is what has been said before here, that 'cheating' is wrong because of lying to your partner.
It's wrong on several levels, in some situations. But lying is, also, not always wrong. Are all people who lie subject to never being trusted either?
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My view has always been that if I had a problem, I bring it to my S.O. first. Let's work it out kind of mentality. Now, if they refuse or reject help/counseling, for a period of time, it's time to leave. Because yes, they did break their vow as well. However, the fact you gave your commitment first priority and tried to make it work was all that you could be expected to do. Now, be free to live and love again.
Makes sense, sure. And sounds really simple but, alas, it is not that simple for everyone.
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In case you're wondering, moral absolutes are not reserved for religious zealots.
I wasn't wondering. Religion is not what I believe to be the cause of such limited thinking.
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I have a friend who is an atheist and in an open marriage with the same view regarding cheating. They discuss everything openly and no one does anything without total agreement. You wouldn't believe what he said about this subject! I quote: "My wife is my life. I am nothing without her. I would never do anything to betray her because then I would have broken our most sacred bond. No other woman is worth that."
I'm not surprised at all. You can't get more honest than being in an open relationship. However, they seem to have a good relationship, so that would not be a good example.
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I think it's good to think about this before you get married.
Absolutely.
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Really think about what commitment means to you. Most people I knew who got married never did which is probably why the majority are divorced now.
It's easy in the sense that it's easy to get a divorce. You don't even have to have a reason. And it's better to leave than to cheat. So leaving, no matter how, emotionally, hard is the right choice. If you've reached the point you're sleeping with other people, why are you even in a marriage? What kind of person lives that life of deceit? Far better to be honest and free your poor spouse to find someone who loves them.
I'm not going to debate the worthlessness of cheaters. I'm actually curious about a couple of other things.
Divorce is so simple, it's so easy, yet you are dead set against it. You're with a man you don't trust and you're literally waiting for him to cheat again or leave you for someone else. So, if you are so sure this is going to happen, since you really have no real marriage, why would you risk putting yourself or your kids through it, AGAIN?
What would have happened if your husband chose to leave you first? Your take on it is that he would be doing you a favor, allowing the "poor spouse" to find someone who would really love her. But, what about the kids? Would you have forced him to stay? Would you have asked what you could do, if anything, to keep the marriage going? Or would you vilify him for walking out? I just don't see how anyone would win in that scenario either.
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So it's better to teach them to be self serving, put themselves first and put their kids through hell just so they can be happy ... Great role models there.
Not all kids go through hell because their parents have the nerve to pursue their own happiness.
This brings to mind what they tell us on the flights about the oxygen masks. “Make sure to put the oxygen mask on yourself first before attempting to help someone else put on theirs”. They used to make a specific reference to children (they may still, I just haven't flown in a while) and it really makes sense. A happy person is a happy parent. I know you're going to say you can "choose" to be a happy parent, etc. Personally, I could not be happy as a person in an unhappy marriage. It's not like a job you go to and leave at 5. It is a marriage 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
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The crap above is what people who don't put their kids first tell themselves so they can sleep at night.
To imply that people should not be able to live with themselves if they don't think the way you do is not rational. Fortunately, it isn't reality either.
I'm not trying to change your mind. This is, sadly, just as outrageous is it was back when I started here. You want people to offer up proof of how cheating is good, when they are simply not agreeing with you that people who cheat are ALL bad. Since you are the one with the absolute answer, it really is up to you to prove that they are.
Finally, you really shouldn't care so much, to the point of repeating the same thing over and over. If you are so sure that what you are doing is right, why "justify" so much?
I do wish you all the best, Ivory. You do deserve to be happy.
I wouldn't forgive even a single occurence of infidelity. That's a dealbreaker for me. It's hurtful, a thought out, planned, and executed blatant disrespect to me, you, and our relationship as a whole. Everyone deserves honesty and respect. But simply put, I'd NEVER, EVER be able to trust or give my all to him again. We all deserve better than that.
I wouldn't forgive even a single occurence of infidelity. That's a dealbreaker for me. It's hurtful, a thought out, planned, and executed blatant disrespect to me, you, and our relationship as a whole. Everyone deserves honesty and respect. But simply put, I'd NEVER, EVER be able to trust or give my all to him again. We all deserve better than that.
I agree. I can tell you from experience that you cannot learn to trust them again. Once bitten, twice shy.
Perhaps my: "I don't think people are divided into good or bad" opening statement of my previous post would open your eyes that I don't see people as good or bad, but nevermind. You wouldn't understand my point even if I gave you a magnifying glass. Poor soul.
If you went back and re-read any of my posts, you would not see or be able to quote me on where I said "cheaters are good people". You just don't understand what I'm trying to convey to you, at all. Like a mental blockage, hence my reading comprehension comment.
I want to apologize to the rest of the forum for my contribution of beating the dead horse. I get frustrated when people with reading comprehension problem are trying to put words in my mouth.
As I said, you suppot that cheaters can be/are good people. And, as I've said, over and over and over....I don't think good people go around, deliberately, hurting their spouses to get what they want. Your definition of a good person and mine are two different things.
Our decisions and the actions based on those decisions tell the world what we really are deep down inside. IMO, a cheater is not nearly as good a spouse as a non cheater. The cheater has no hope of being a good spouse because they're a cheater. The non cheater may or may not be a good spouse. We'd have to look at their actions.
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. That seems way backwards to me.
... Great role models there. 
Nope.
