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Whoever asked out the other. Why on earth would you ask ME out on a first date, and expect me to pay for the evening? You are hosting...you pay. I ask you, I pay.
I agree. But if we agree to go dutch I'm fine with it too. Most of my dates paid though.
It is already equal. If she asks you, she pays. If a guy invites me to dinner, am I supposed to ask where we're going so I can find out if I can afford it? That is just awkward and weird to me. But good luck with doing it your way.
I apologize for not being good writing my ideas. I always pay for the bill unless she suggests splitting, in which case I might still end up paying the bill. That is what you are not getting. I am talking about the principals behind this, not the way I do things. This is not personal. I’m not trying to bash women in general, I’m just trying to discuss why things work the way they do. I'll set up the scenario again:
1. Boy and girl "BOTH"*** agree to go to dinner.
2. They talk, eat, have a good/bad time and fall in love/end up hating their guts...
3. The time to pay the bill comes....
(a) Boy tries to pays the bill.
i. Girl lets him pay for bill.
ii. Girl declines his generosity and pays for bill.
iii. Girl suggests splitting bill instead.
(b) Girl tries to pays the bill.
i. Boy declines her generosity and pays for bill anyways.
ii. Boy lets her pay for bill.
iii. Boy suggests splitting bill instead.
(c) Guy suggests them splitting bill.
i. Girl declines his generosity and pays for bill anyways.
ii. Boy declines her generosity and pays for bill anyways.
(d) Girl suggests splitting bill.
i. Girl declines his generosity and pays for bill anyways.
ii. Boy declines her generosity and pays for bill anyways.
***Important He invited her, and she invited him. Mutual invitation. This is the scenario in my OP.
Ok now. I know there are soooo many other ways this can turn out but for generalization purposes lets go with these.
Here is my view on the respective outcomes of my scenario.
ai. Expected outcome of most people males and females.
aii. Has never happened to me in my dating career.
aiii. Has happened to me that that is the way I see thing should be. Not because I don’t have the money to pay, but because I don’t agree with the general accepted belief that the macho man should provide for the female.
Most of the other things (with the exception of biii) relating to the female splitting or paying for the bill can result in the date going wrong very fast.
I agree that whoever asks the other out should pay.
But I wanted to add I HATE not being taken at my word. If I were to offer to pay or split the bill, and it turned into a man not LETTING me out of some assumption I was setting up a trap...
Conversations like that make me want to rip my eyes out. If a woman is into playing those kinds of games, I would say it would be best to find out sooner rather than later.
It would be stupid of me to bring this up on a first date. I does bother me, but not enough to ruin a date or to even discuss it with someone I am barely meeting. I understand that is just how society works. I won't ruin a date just to have a discussion about this. That is the reason I use the forums to have discussions about subjects like this.
I wasn't concerned with whether or not you should or would bring it up on a first date. I was addressing the way you think, not that it is how society works but that it is a trap. The question was how do you know that someone you are "barely meeting" is not being sincere in offering to pay? And, yes, I do believe your particular line of thinking is something you should bring up before the date. If I had any idea a man I barely knew thought that way of me without any cause, I wouldn't bother going out with him at all.
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What are the odds the woman is sincerely asking this question? Most women ask it as a courtesy more than anything.
I don't know what the odds are because I don't know "most women". Neither do you. Even if you did, how could you know what they are really thinking? I'm sure there are women who ask just as a courtesy. But the generalizations to the degree that paints you as being so powerless is what gives this a man-bashing overtone.
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I don't want to fall in the trap of saying yes to splitting/letting her pay the bill and risking ruining the date. I just go with it.
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If I let her pay or suggest splitting, I'll look like an a$$. I have the money to pay, its just the principal behind it I don't like.
There are ways to discuss it before hand so you don't end up resenting yet another incident of not splitting the tab. There are women who are actually offering to pay their way, but you would prefer to think that these offers are insincere and that you'll risk ruining the date/never get a second date if you don't "go with it". You don't want to fall into the "trap", you pay, and blame the "principle".
Fact. There are plenty of women who actually are willing to pay their way, many over the idea that allowing a man to pay somehow entitles him to sex (which only fuels the said idea, but that's another topic). Others are too proud to let a man pay. Others don't even care if you have a job. There are options out there for you.
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This was an answer to another person's question. Please read the the previous threads.
I did. It doesn't change anything.
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Originally Posted by MrDezi
It is just as weird as you want it to be. I believe the ideal way to handle this is just to do it in a casual matter and it applies to places where you actually pay for food/entrance/etc. I just believe that the way things should be to keep equality among the sexes is for the female not to have an expectation of they guy paying, but instead to expect the bill to be split. This would give him the option to either pay for it if he wishes to or split it.
To suggest that this is about keeping equality among the sexes is a crock, IMO. The sexes are already equal. You paying the tab doesn't make this any less so. Expecting a man to pay the bill when he invites someone out doesn't make it any less so. Men have the option to pay or split it at any time. Communicate what you want. There is no reason or excuse to not have it.
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This is just a discussion forum. I am writing this for discussion's sake, not as principle I live by.
We are discussing it. And you are obviously, in disagreement with this particular principle you are living by - that you choose to live by.
I apologize for not being good writing my ideas. I always pay for the bill unless she suggests splitting, in which case I might still end up paying the bill. That is what you are not getting. I am talking about the principals behind this, not the way I do things. This is not personal. I’m not trying to bash women in general, I’m just trying to discuss why things work the way they do. I'll set up the scenario again:
1. Boy and girl "BOTH"*** agree to go to dinner.
2. They talk, eat, have a good/bad time and fall in love/end up hating their guts...
3. The time to pay the bill comes....
(a) Boy tries to pays the bill.
i. Girl lets him pay for bill.
ii. Girl declines his generosity and pays for bill.
iii. Girl suggests splitting bill instead.
(b) Girl tries to pays the bill.
i. Boy declines her generosity and pays for bill anyways.
ii. Boy lets her pay for bill.
iii. Boy suggests splitting bill instead.
(c) Guy suggests them splitting bill.
i. Girl declines his generosity and pays for bill anyways.
ii. Boy declines her generosity and pays for bill anyways.
(d) Girl suggests splitting bill.
i. Girl declines his generosity and pays for bill anyways.
ii. Boy declines her generosity and pays for bill anyways.
***Important He invited her, and she invited him. Mutual invitation. This is the scenario in my OP.
Ok now. I know there are soooo many other ways this can turn out but for generalization purposes lets go with these.
Here is my view on the respective outcomes of my scenario.
ai. Expected outcome of most people males and females.
aii. Has never happened to me in my dating career.
aiii. Has happened to me that that is the way I see thing should be. Not because I don’t have the money to pay, but because I don’t agree with the general accepted belief that the macho man should provide for the female.
Most of the other things (with the exception of biii) relating to the female splitting or paying for the bill can result in the date going wrong very fast.
I have never, EVER, had a guy ask me out to dinner, and then suggest we split the bill. Ever.
I have never, EVER, had a guy ask me out to dinner, and then suggest we split the bill. Ever.
Heh, JetJockey shared a few days ago how some jerk asked her out, picked the restaurant, stayed stil and quiet when the bill arrived, and she paid it! Some "men" out there!
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