Who should pay for dinner on the first date? (serious, people, brother)

[onihC]

Originally Posted by JustJulia

Okay ... but who cares what those women think? The downside of that attitude is that those women have to wait to be asked out. If nobody asks them, they never date. There are drawbacks to either way of doing things.

We’ve seen women like that start threads and you’ll see me asking them why not go ask that guy they like and the answers will be similar: that is a man’s job, I am a lady and therefore I shouldn’t ask a man out, if he really likes me he will be the one pursuing me, I am too scared to be rejected, I asked one guy out and didn’t succeed so no more asking from me, etc. etc. etc.

Later on, they come back happily to share how a guy asked them out and started taking care of them.

If it's not necessarily bad, why do you harp on it so much?

I mention how it is not necessarily bad because women in other threads say that men who are against this tradition are terrible. So I make it clear I don’t see it as something bad. Come on, I date western girls too whenever I am in a western country.

[JordanJP]

ideally, the asker should pay.. but I'm usually the one who takes the bill regardless of whether she asked me to dinner or I asked her.

[Cindy_Jole]

Originally Posted by onihC

Women will either say a man should pay or that "whoever asks pays" but still MOST women prefer men to be the ones who do the asking, taking the inititive, etc. Therefore, in one way or the other, women do expect men to pay for their meals and entertainment. It's not necessarily bad. Cultural thing I guess.

Again, where do you get this "most women want men to do all the work" business? Clearly this thread says otherwise.

[Jefetio]

Originally Posted by Cindy_Jole

Again, where do you get this "most women want men to do all the work" business? Clearly this thread says otherwise.

//www.city-data.com/forum/relat...ting-girl.html

If you need more examples, just start paying attention. Threads like that come up every day.

[onihC]

Originally Posted by Cindy_Jole

Again, where do you get this "most women want men to do all the work" business? Clearly this thread says otherwise.

Look at the votes so far. I don't see you disagreeing with those who say that a lady shouldn't pay, it is a man's job to pay, and so on. Women are quick to say "whoever asks pays" but tell me something, who does the MAJORITY of asking out? Can't deny the fact that it is men who do it and women who prefer things to go that way. Therefore, women saying that whoever asks pays is pretty much saying "men should pay".

Google "who pays on a date...dating tips...chivalry...first date..." and tell me what you find.

[orangeapple]

You're already interested in a relationship with this person on a first date? Really, before you know them at all? Looks awfully desperate to me.

No, I am interested in seeing if there is compatibility, the same as you admitted to. You are purposely misinterpreting my words.

You ask him out and are expecting him to pay? That's not manners, but it's a bad attitude of expectation on your part.

Who said I asked him out? Again, you are making assumptions.
I want to be pursued because I am a reserved person. I don't pine over men who don't ask me out. If other women want to ask men out & pay for them, then good for them.

You're looking for a RELATIONSHIP on the first date, before you even know much about this person? Don't know about you but I vet people a little better than that. Obviously, YMMV.

Nope, I'm doing exactly what you said you were doing - looking to see if there's compatibility. Why is it crazy when I do it, but not when you do it?

I'm speechless. Then it is about the wallet.

I've repeated over & over that it's about attitude, not money. You conveniently ignore those points.

The assumption I'm making is that even if you ask a guy out, you take the action, you're expecting him to pay. Seems rather rude to me.

No, the assumption YOU make is that I am asking the guy out. Your unfounded assumptions are what's rude.

Double standard? The person who asks someone out, pays. What more expectations? You make the offer of a date, you pay. Pretty simple. The double standard is your expectation that no matter who asks, tha man pays. You can't hold all of the trump cards and let the man have all jokers.

Again, more assumptions. I noted that women have expectations put on them that men do not, expectations that men benefit from. Men definitely do not get "all the jokers" in life or relationships.

You're making all of the rules here. Why would anyone want to be in a relationship (or go on an initial date) when there's gender inequalities.

I'm not making "rules". Like any person, I have standards & expectations. I will look for SIGNS if a person is not compatible to me, and a huge factor to me is respect for women & serious intentions. Every time I have ignored this sign & dated someone who I split the bill with, the man turns out to have a chip on his shoulder towards women. All of this "gender equality" talk is nice in theory, but the reality is, I don't find these men to respect women. The men I find who are really comfortable with women as equals don't feel the need to throw it in their face.

Originally Posted by chielgirl

With this attitude, that the man = wallet, how many fulfilling relationships have you had, or have they all ended in disaster?

That is NOT my attitude AT ALL. You continue to ascribe opinions to me that I have not expressed & do not feel. This is unreasonable & amounts to straw man arguments, and this will be my last response to you should you continue to address me this way.

I often pay for things in my current relationship & do nice things for my boyfriend (who is unemployed at the moment, so obviously the wallet is not my concern). He's a great guy who showed a balanced, respectful view towards women & me on our first date, and part of that was indicated by his offering to pay.

The first date sets the tone. It tells me whether or not I am being viewed as a friend, a fling, or relationship potential. It shows the man's attitude towards women: is he resentful or respectful of women? Does he have a chip on his shoulder? Does he value money more than people? etc.... Experience has taught me these lessons.

[Jefetio]

Originally Posted by orangeapple

The first date sets the tone. It tells me whether or not I am being viewed as a friend, a fling, or relationship potential. It shows the man's attitude towards women: is he resentful or respectful of women? Does he have a chip on his shoulder? Does he value money more than people? etc.... Experience has taught me these lessons.

What does it say about the woman and her attitude towards men?

[orangeapple]

Originally Posted by Jefetio

What does it say about the woman and her attitude towards men?

It says I don't have a chip on my shoulder about being a woman. I am not threatened by men. I don't need to prove anything to men about my Independence. It shows I expect men to respect me and not view me as a fling or string me along on when they have no serious intentions.

[onihC]

Originally Posted by orangeapple

Again, more assumptions. I noted that women have expectations put on them that men do not, expectations that men benefit from. Men definitely do not get "all the jokers" in life or relationships

As we have read in other threads men pretty much need a car, money, a job, to live out of his parent’s house, creativity to break the ice and ask you out, can’t use coupons, etc. You? As long as he finds you attractive and nice to hang out with, you are good to go.

The men I find who are really comfortable with women as equals don't feel the need to throw it in their face

If men and women are equals then why all those expectations about men?

I often pay for things in my current relationship & do nice things for my boyfriend

How long did it take for him to become your boyfriend?

The first date sets the tone. It tells me whether or not I am being viewed as a friend, a fling, or relationship potential

A man can also wonder if he’s seen as a woman’s meal and entertainment ticket, her walking ATM, friend, etc. But think about a relationship on the very first date? Aren’t you two barely BEGINNING to know each other better compared to going out with a group of friends? There are bad men out there who will go out with a girl with other goals in mind, bad ones of course, but, believe it or not, there are bad women out there too who will go out with men just to score all kinds of freebies under the name of “chivalry/tradition”.

Originally Posted by orangeapple

I don't need to prove anything to men about my Independence. It shows I expect men to respect me and not view me as a fling or string me along on when they have no serious intentions.

While a man has to prove to you that he is a good man, a provider, doesn't see you as a fling, etc. You don't need to prove anything and just show up to the dates, right? It's all about “Me me me me me” in your case I guess.

[Dewdroplet76]

I didn't read the whole thread and I didn't vote. I think that it all depends on the situation. Ideally, I think whoever does the asking should do the paying. That being said, I have always offered to pay on every date - unless I was being taken out for something specific (as in I know I'm being treated as part of a gift or something).

I also think - and I've said this before - that this shouldn't be such a big deal. I'm not sure why people on C-D seem to harp on this subject so much! When I dated, sometimes I paid, sometimes I didn't, sometimes we went dutch. It was never a big issue. Every situation is different, every person is different - there are not hard fast rules. Just like there are no hard fast rules on how many dates you go on before you know you are in love, before you sleep with someone, before you move in together, etc. Some people insist on paying - others insist on being paid for. If the situation is not to your liking - you know you are not dating the right person and you move on. Why make such a big deal about it?