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The problem with many women is they want to pick and choose when feminism and women's rights applies. It doesn't work that way and that's not why feminism started. You can't decide to fight for equal pay, treatment, etc; and then return to a passive role in dating. That's not feminism. That's wanting feminism when it benefits you.
I think her point is that being treated as an equal human being and not some second class citizen has nothing to do with dating.
What men imply when they say stuff like you have just said is that you are willing to dole out cash to keep someone else subjugated. Do you realize how sick that is?
That's what Shaolin was stating, equal rights for everything, not just situations where it benefits you. When women were given the right to vote, hold any position possible,etc it benefited them at no expense to men. Men had the same rights to do this as well. In traditional dating it doesn't hold true. Women hold more of the leverage and benefit more than men. They don't need to pursue and pay to date men. If I was a woman, I wouldn't want something like this to go away either, to be honest. Who doesn't want to be wined and dined and asked out while looking receptive to attention from the opposite sex. It benefits me more so than men since they have to shell out the cash and do most of the work. For those women that like this type of dating, I say, find someone who wants the same thing. But don't expect men that experienced the agenda of feminism to agree to such a double standard. Equality isn't some kind of card you pull out when something doesn't go your way and then you just hide when the inequality benefits you instead.
It's call equal "rights" for a reason. It mean we have the rights as everyone else. It's not you get equal rights if you change who you are.
We have the "right" to pursue the same things, doesn't mean we have to.
My equality is inherent, the laws just caught up. And having rights means I get to choose how to live my life, not that I exchanged having legal rights for having a relationship on my terms.
You can beat your drum all you want. I can tell you there are a LOT of men out there who do not hold your views.
I don't know if a thread like that exists, but I guess we could poll it. If I'm understanding you correctly, you're off the mark with the assertion that any woman other than the one promoting a gender role should be subjected to the consequences of that preference. Further, any woman that demands a man play a gender role and does not submit to their own gender role is a hypocrite. Again, keep in mind that there is no umbrella here.
That's right, there is no umbrella. Women can be just as sexist as men can be, they can be hypocritical, and a man who calls out a hypocritical B is not being any more bitter or sexist than a woman who calls out a hypocritical man. If women don't want to be called selfish B's, maybe they should elaborate on the things they think women should do for men, instead of being so focused on what they should receive from men.
That's what Shaolin was stating, equal rights for everything, not just situations where it benefits you. When women were given the right to vote, hold any position possible,etc it benefited them at no expense to men. Men had the same rights to do this as well. In traditional dating it doesn't hold true. Women hold more of the leverage and benefit more than men. They don't need to pursue and pay to date men. If I was a woman, I wouldn't want something like this to go away either, to be honest. Who doesn't want to be wined and dined and asked out while looking receptive to attention from the opposite sex. It benefits me more so than men since they have to shell out the cash and do most of the work. For those women that like this type of dating, I say, find someone who wants the same thing. But don't expect men that experienced the agenda of feminism to agree to such a double standard. Equality isn't some kind of card you pull out when something doesn't go your way(no right to vote) and then you just hide it when the inequality benefits you instead(traditional dating).
So, are you saying that the rights of blacks are dependent on their relationships with whites?
It's call equal "rights" for a reason. It mean we have the rights as everyone else. It's not you get equal rights if you change who you are.
We have the "right" to pursue the same things, doesn't mean we have to.
My equality is inherent, the laws just caught up. And having rights means I get to choose how to live my life, not that I exchanged having legal rights for having a relationship on my terms.
You can beat your drum all you want. I can tell you there are a LOT of men out there who do not hold your views.
That's right. You have the right to have whatever sexist beliefs you want, as I do, and we both have the right to point out how sexist and unequal one anothers beliefs may be : )
I agree with Dewdrop . . . and males, please also note that you don't get to make the "rules" about what is included in feminism . . . that is for feminists to do.
Yes, they can. Men can be feminists. A feminist is anyone who believes women are equal to men. The definition of equal is what brings the disagreement and bridges such as the waves of feminism.
I'm sorry. You women can't ask us men to be considered equal to men and then ask us to treat you like women when it comes to personal life matters. It don't work like that.
This is something I usually do for anyone anyway. Not because they are women or men but b/c I'm a believer that doing good things will be rewarded later.
Now for my rebuttal, you wanted equal treatment? I will give it to you. If I don't do it for a man, I won't do it for a woman.
Women wanting equal rights isn't wanting to be considered equaly to MEN - it's wanting us to be considered equal HUMAN BEINGS. The same with blacks fighting for their rights and gays fighting for their rights - this isn't about wanting to be considered white heterosexual men - it's about wanting to be considered equal under the law. The right to vote, equal pay - these things have nothing to do with matters of the heart - these have to do with matters of the law.
This is my point - it seems that many men on here are angered that women can vote and get equal pay. Why? This doesn't have anything to do with gender roles, marriage, relationships - yet they act like since we can vote and hold down jobs - we should be acting like "men." Why can't we just act like ourselves? Why does the right to vote mean that we have to change our entire personalities?
And I open the door for men, women, children, etc. My husband opens the door for everyone as well. Do I appreciate it when he opens the door for me? Yes! Would I like it if he slammed it in my face and told me to get the door for myself since I demand other things like the right to vote? I probably wouldn't have married him!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jefetio
What would a feminist call a man who expected women to always do ___? To always be ____?
They'd call him a sexist pig, a chauvenist, an a-hole, or any number of names
Yet when it comes to women, they give them the choice.... you are allowed whatever sexist unrealistic expectations you want, because it's your choice.
Well, I'm allowed that too. Men are allowed that too. If you want differences, if you want inequality, or the choice to be treated unequal as long as that's your choice, then men have that choice as well.
It's not about "keeping you in the dark ages". It's about men having every choice that women have.
You can treat people however you want to treat them. If you want to be angry and bitter towards women - it's no skin off my back. But I can't imagine anyone being very happy that way. My point is that people should be allowed to be who they are - men, women, transgender, everyone. People seem to be so angry and bitter about women or men not being the way that THEY want them to be.
And let me ask all you bitter men this - since you don't want to ask women out, pay for dates, hold the door open for women (obviously, they should be doing all these things for you since they now are considered equal in the eyes of the law) - are you also okay with women not wearing makeup, not dressing up, not having hips and breasts, etc?
People should be allowed to be who they are with out being punished for things like - the right to vote, equal pay, etc.
Ultimately, men benefit from pursuing women, or they wouldn't do it. Men don't chase women because they are great humanitarians.
And this is the great point....men are whining that they still have to do the pursuing and the pay...well, the fact is, most of the time, you want it more in any given situation.
That has *nothing* to do with equality. If a woman really, really, really wanted you, you wouldn't have to fork over a dime.
So, are you saying that the rights of blacks are dependent on their relationships with whites?
When you start debating what I said instead of what you hallucinated that I said, then we'll have a discussion.
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