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Okay, now that I've got that out of the way. First of all, let me say I am very, very morally opposed to cheating. I've never cheated and wouldn't consider it. In my view (this is just mine, mind you), if you're willing to cheat on someone, then that someone obviously doesn't mean enough to you any more, and you should nut up or whatever the female equivalent is (ovary up?) and leave first and take that risk and then go out with the other person.
My sister is sleeping with a man who has been living with another woman for 10 years.
The two--I'll call them T, the man, and V, the woman--are not married. However, they own a house together. This has been how they've lived for ten years. T has never proposed to V, but then again, I think he swore off marriage or some other such story after his first marriage failed many years ago.
Anyway, my sister, Sissy's, husband died last year. Sissy is now 41. She grieved for a bit and then all of a sudden started flirting like a madwoman. Fine, possible backlash reaction to grief, blah blah, yadda yadda, that part I can accept; I'm not going through it, I'm nobody to judge. But out of all the guys who have asked her out, she picked the as-good-as-married one.
Here's the thing. I've told her before that I don't want to talk about it. It makes me sick, to be frank. I feel sorry for V. She has no clue this is going on. But Sissy seems to think it's all fine because V is ooooooooooooooooo neglectful of T (um, yeah...cheaters NEVER use that excuse) and they're practically broken up (I think I've heard that one too) and, get this...Sissy says she's not putting V in any physical danger of diseases or what-have-you because T is "impotent with V". In fact, this only firms Sissy's lack of empathy for this woman because obviously it's V's fault that T was impotent, right? So V should have been sexier. She had her chance.
And as T delightedly told Sissy the first time he knocked uninvited on the door and came in to unzip, do it and then leave, Sissy "cured" him of his impotence. Which Sissy takes as a glowing endorsement of her (Sissy's) incredible beauty and sexiness, and specialness.
Oh. My. God.
What the hell has happened to my sister???
I mean we are talking about Miss Morals here. Upstanding. Classy (or, well...she used to be). She works in a church, for the love of mike. (By the way, they've had sex there, too. She just locks the door.)
I have told her many times that she should leave him, period. I know cut her off when she starts her weepy stories about how he "just won't say I love you" (Oh now why would that be? After all, don't people who love you, keep you a filthy secret, drop in unexpectedly and unzip their pants, shake off and leave with the reminder that you're not to ever call them at work or at home, etc.?). She sneaks in comments anyway.
I'm getting tired of my pat answer, which is, "Tell him to f*ck off." Don't laugh. That is literally what I say to her, mostly in response to her weepy e-mails. I give her NO chance of thinking I might actually discuss the matter. I feel like if I come right out and put my foot down, though--for example, say I'll no longer speak to her if she keeps it up--then that really is what will happen. She is stubborn, and our dynamic is that she's allowed to tell me off, but it never works in reverse. (I know--I know.)
Plus...selfishly, I am going out there in three weeks and will be staying with her. If I put my foot down, I'm pretty sure she'll tell me not to come.
I don't know what to do. Does anyone have any advice?
I have to take a plane right now; but until I return...
Is there any vulnerability in your sister's life right now. Has anything traumatic happened to her in the last two years.
Yes. The death of her husband one year ago at the age of 38, from colon cancer. I do understand that this could be a grief avoidance or backlash, etc. But you know what? She's doing something that directly affects someone else--the girlfriend, who I have no doubt is also having sex with this man--and hoping for worse for this woman; hoping they break up, leaving the woman (who is 60!!!) alone...etc. and no matter how much grief one has...there is no excuse for that.
She (Sissy) refuses to go to therapy. Trust me. More than one person, without even knowing about the T situation, have asked her to go for a variety of reasons, but she won't.
I know I should be more understanding. But you know what--everyone else in this situation is allowed to be selfish too; how about I have a degree of selfishness in not enjoying having this dirt put on my plate constantly, and constantly being reminded "not to tell anybody"--leaving me basically an accomplice. It makes me sick.
I am a firm believer in Karma...and that how you find your 'man/woman' is exactly how you'll lose them. It is understandable that your sister is lonely now...she lost someone that she loved, and she probably doesn't really know up from down. I have had friends in terrible relationships...some where I could see the inevitable 'crash' coming from a mile away. But then, it's easier to see when you are watching from the sidelines and not wrapped up in the emotion yourself. I've always tried to give my opinion, and not pass judgement...because friends (and sisters) can tell when you're giving them advice, if you are doing it from a place of judgement they tend to dismiss it more readily. Try to give your best adbice to her from a place of general good intentions; and then 'bite your tongue' Your safest bet, although difficult, is to say your peace...and then let it go. In the end it really is her life, and she will have to deal with the decisions that she makes (and how they impact her life). It is sad that her decision is blindly impacting the life of this woman (caught in the middle)...but I have to believe that this woman's 'live-in' would probably have found someone else to lead him 'astray' if it wasn't your sister. That issue really has more to do with him; and their relationship. Hopefully she'll get wise to the man that she is living with. In the end, your sister's 'relationship' probably won't work out, but be their for her when it doesn't
Last edited by movingtolou; 09-25-2007 at 01:05 PM..
...don't think of yourself as an 'accomlice' you haven't been 'dirtied' by her actions. They are grown people... I wouldn't act like this 'man' is the 'prize' in a tug-of-war either.
I knew a woman who believed the "I am not sleeping with my wife, she doesn't understand me blah blah line the married guy she was sleeping with told her.
Imagine her surprise when after 6 months the wife became pregnant. It was the wake up call we had all tried to get her to see.
I am not trying to make excuses for her behavior but a couple things come to mind.
It is possible she has so much anger form the death of her husband at such a young age from cancer that she doesn't care that she is hurting others. The "I hurt so everyone else should"
She doesn't want the nice available guys because with the married guy deep down she knows there is no real chance of a relationship so she doesn't have to worry about someone else dying on her.
Also it may seem strange but during her husbands illness she probably received a lot of attention from everyone now even if the attention is bad (everyone telling her this is wrong) it is still attention.
I know quite a few people who have gone completely against their normal behavior after losing a loved one.
Hopefully she will realize that the guy is stringing her along and her family only has her best interests in mind.
You may have to try some "tough love" and tell her you do not want to hear or discuss her on going affair. If she has no one to tell about his not committing to her she will start telling him and believe me that may send him out the door.
chances are, your sister isn't the first women he's cheated with...
2nd, anyone who is cheating, is understandable going to say, he is not happy at home and he is not sleeping with his mate
3rd....what goes around comes around and your sister will have nothing good come from this, even if he leaves her for your sister, eventually he will do the same thing to your sister....it is a pattern and she should read up on it, or talk to a counselor....
and...ask her what gives her the right to get involved with someone who is already with someone, that, to me, is a very self absorbed thing to do.
I dunno, this is just bad, bad, bad all the way around and you may not be able to talk to her....
you could also ask her how she would feel if it would be done to her, tell her you know people who have been cheated on and it ripped their hearts out.
not to mention, a spouse who finds out about their spouse cheating is a recipe for disaster, meaning, I've heard stories of people going temporarily insane...this is dangerous.
JerZ...good luck...I mean it....
Love ya
Creme
Last edited by cremebrulee; 09-25-2007 at 12:49 PM..
3rd....what goes around comes around and your sister will have nothing good come from this, even if he leaves her for your sister, eventually he will do the same thing to your sister....
cremebrulee how true
the lady down the street hired a PI and was upset that her husband was cheating on her. When I asked what made her hire a PI she said they both were married when they met so she recognized the signs.
Oh, JerZ, you know I've read enough of your posts to know that you're a "no-nonsense" kind of a gal, and I think your "take" on all of this is absolutely right! But you know as well as I do, that people make their own choices many times no matter what we tell them. Sounds like she knows where you stand on this. (If not, then, yes, by all means, make it clear.) I certainly wouldn't threaten to cut off relationship with her, no matter what she does or doesn't do here, but I think you should just make it abundantly clear that you have a pretty low tolerance for "being the shoulder to cry on" since you don't approve of the situation to begin with...and follow through with that.
I don't want to cut off my relationship with her, not really. I just don't know what else to do at this point. I just want her to leave me out of this and respect my privacy about it and I don't like the constant feeling that she's trying to get my approval of it or whatever. I can't do that. How could I??? I want to be that shoulder to cry on, but not about this. That might sound narrow, but this is a serious trigger thing for me--cheating. I don't know why anybody does it, I don't know why anybody would want to contribute to it, and it destroys relationships and families. I'm definitely not Polly Perfect, but after 40 years, Sissy surely knows me a little better than to think I would be gung-ho for this.
She's an adult, so...she wants to do this thing. And it's none of my business. But that's just the point. It really isn't my business. I resent it being made my business.
It's funny that a few people here said the shoe could wind up being on the other foot, because way back in the beginning, when she asked for my opinion, I said, "I think that one day when it's you being talked down by this guy to some woman, when it's you who is 'causing him to be impotent' because you're so old or you're not thin any more, then you won't be very happy that you won him after all." I actually couldn't even believe I said that, because I'm usually very afraid of direct confrontation with Sissy. I was afraid after that that she would stop talking to me; but she did keep talking to me, just not about this particular issue. But then she started up again.
I confess that something did set this off in me this morning: she told me she hasn't had her period and might be pregnant.
Honestly I will vomit into my own shoe if that's the case. But I guess I'll have to be supportive...
I had this paranoid thought that she's making that up in an effort to force me to talk about it. She keeps trying to bring it up and I know it's frustrating to her.
Why me? Go spill to someone else. Go on a message board! (LOL...) Go to Cheaters Anonymous. Go anywhere but to me with this...I hate it...and she's invading my privacy with it...and she has asked for "my advice" about nine thousand times but hasn't taken it yet.
Ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh.
This girl better not be pregnant. I'll just feel ill but I'll have to be supportive...I just hope that's really not the case because then I'll have to wonder even worse things...like if the "accident" wasn't quite an accident. I just don't know if I'll be able to look at her the same way again and I want to look at her the same way...I want to still love her...I want her to still be my sister but this is all just completely awful.
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