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Call it what you want, but any time someone (no matter how gentle or supposedly deserved) is given or handed or assumed to have the final word, that IS control. Leadership is about control. Period. Not just over others...you are right. You must also have it over yourself.
But the leader IS the final word, is IS his/her way or the highway (ultimately, regardless of what concessions you make), and it's not a dynamic I feel comfortable with in romantic relationships (certainly not in a relationship I would consider comprised of 'equals').
It's what I do every single day; I am the benevolent, thoughtful, lead-by-example type (though I admit, I really need to work on delegating/micromanaging). With me rests the final responsibility. The buck stops here. So with me rests the final word.
Like mountains says, to each their own. But I would not consider a relationship where there is an established leader one of equals. Because it's not.
I am 99.9 percent in agreement with you here. In the end the situation IS determined by personality types, whether leader or follower. I have noticed a tendency in groups, even informal ones where a project was casual in nature, to reach a conclusion and then to kind of stare at one another until someone -- some inexplicable Alpha (in the sociological context, not the pathetic one so bandied about in these forums) speaks the word: Okay, let's get going! And then as if by magic, movement simply begins. Everyone goes off in their direction, the discussion itself was public and mutual -- and yet there is a kind of group hesitation once decision is reached to wait for the signal to GO!
But in relationships? Nope; things just don't work that way.
Often people like to hold up a demanding and purely argumentative caveat: But what if a decision HAS to be made, and the couple is in argument and cannot agree?
That's so very near to PURE conjecture it's laughable. How often do situations like that occur at all, let alone within the confines of a marriage?
My husband is definitely the "leader" in our household, but he leads with the skills of a true leader. A true leader is quiet spoken, confident, and humble. A true leader works alongside those he leads, and leads by example. A true leader DELEGATES authority and builds up people on his team - showcases their talents, allows them to make their own decisions - he oversees the operations while allowing those he leads to excel and prosper and lead as well. He taps into their talents and learns from them. He doesn't have to strong arm anyone or throw his weight around. He works hard at allowing others to shine - he realizes that is the best testimony to his leadership.
This is why my husband is such a good manager in the business world, and such a good mate to me.
By the way, he would never be happy with a weak woman as a wife. He wants and needs - and has - a strong and independent partner. He knows he can leave everything in my hands for weeks at a time - his elderly parents, our kids, our pets, the house, the yard, the finances, vehicles, travel, you name it - and things will run smoothly.
I am 99.9 percent in agreement with you here. In the end the situation IS determined by personality types, whether leader or follower. I have noticed a tendency in groups, even informal ones where a project was casual in nature, to reach a conclusion and then to kind of stare at one another until someone -- some inexplicable Alpha (in the sociological context, not the pathetic one so bandied about in these forums) speaks the word: Okay, let's get going! And then as if by magic, movement simply begins. Everyone goes off in their direction, the discussion itself was public and mutual -- and yet there is a kind of group hesitation once decision is reached to wait for the signal to GO! But in relationships? Nope; things just don't work that way.
What makes you think romantic relationships are any different than any other kind of human relationship? Remember, I am not talking about blind obedience but a leadership.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Urban Sasquatch
Often people like to hold up a demanding and purely argumentative caveat: But what if a decision HAS to be made, and the couple is in argument and cannot agree?
That's so very near to PURE conjecture it's laughable. How often do situations like that occur at all, let alone within the confines of a marriage?
It is not that rare. Men and women have often different perspectives on things like raising kids and discipline for instance. Women have often problems making logical decisions as they are more likely to be driven by their emotions not logic. Especially when it comes to their kids. I have seen it myself.
Someone has to lead and it has to be a man. Otherwise the man in the marriage is not really a man.
What makes you think romantic relationships are any different than any other kind of relationship?
It is not rare. Men and women have often different perspectives on things like raising kids and discipline for instance. Most of the times women are to weak to make good decisions as they are more likely to be driven by their emotions not logic.
Someone has to lead and it has to be a man. Otherwise the man in the marriage is not really a man.
No, it doesn't have to be a man. A marriage has two people in it, you do realize this right?
I dated a guy like that and we argued all the time. I knew it wasn't going to work because we were both aggressive leaders. My last boyfriend and the guy I am interested in now are both beta men and that's what I need.
men you can "lead" / control you mean..well someone has to wear the pants. We keep saying men and women are equal but are we really? its interesting how people try to make it as equal as possible though. doubt itll ever be 100% equal
I guess you will need to define "equality" in a relationship to me. It's not a quality that either my husband or I frankly give much thought to, because our relationship is not built upon "equality" or the maintenance of it - it's built upon mutual respect, appreciation, honesty and trust, open communication, and common values.
I can honestly say that we have never ONCE asked ourselves, or each other, "Are we equals?" In the context of our marriage, the question would seem ludicrous. It would seem about as useful as musing about how many angels can dance on the head of a pin, or whether or not God can create a rock He cannot move.
Are we equally VALUABLE - is our inherent worth as a human being "equal?" Of course. Do we have "equal" talents, desires, tastes, priorities, etc.? Not exactly, though "equality" about those isn't a necessary component of respect for the other. Do we have equal (here's the biggie) AUTHORITY? I have my realms of authority and he has his, within the relationship. We have been together for seven years and I cannot recall a single time that he bossed me around, told me what to do, or vice versa. We offer suggestions, support, guidance, ideas, arguments for and against, an explanation of our feelings, etc when making decisions. We reach agreements. Occasionally one of us will concede to the other (both of us do this).
There are things that neither of us will tolerate in a relationship, so I guess if either of us did one of those things to the other, we'd have a bad situation or an impasse.
I ALLOW my husband to lead our family in many areas. He ALLOWS me to lead our family in many areas. I have no desire to tell him whether or not he can buy a boat, or give money to his 19 year old son for gas. He has no desire to tell me that he won't allow me to go visit my daughter in Virginia, or buy a pair of expensive stilettos.
Does it even matter if he has "more areas of authority" than I do? (I honestly don't know that he does - the question has never even crossed my mind since we work so well together.) If so, why?
So perhaps we are arguing needlessly about semantics when our goals in a relationship are more in agreement than we realize.
I have a feeling that we agree on a lot more things that we are willing to admit here.
It is not that rare. Men and women have often different perspectives on things like raising kids and discipline for instance. Most of the times women can't make good decisions as they are more likely to be driven by their emotions not logic. Especially when it comes to kids.
Someone has to lead and it has to be a man. Otherwise the man in the marriage is not really a man.
LOL.
This has to be a troll.
Men are so logical and unemotional that most violence is perpetuated by them.
Men outnumber women in prison by THOUSANDS to ONE ratio.
Men rape more than women, hit more than women, get into fistfights in bars more than women, start wars more than women...
Riiiiiiiiiight.
It's that logical, calm, cool violence.
Often people like to hold up a demanding and purely argumentative caveat: But what if a decision HAS to be made, and the couple is in argument and cannot agree?
That's so very near to PURE conjecture it's laughable. How often do situations like that occur at all, let alone within the confines of a marriage?
This is a good point. And I cannot think of one time in our relationship a compromise could not be reached. Or that the hammer or the final word ever had to be pulled out of the holster.
Of course, if 'the final word' is never an option, you will have to work to compromise. May be a little self-fulfilling prophecy.
LOL.
This has to be a troll.
Men are so logical and unemotional that most violence is perpetuated by them.
Men outnumber women in prison by THOUSANDS to ONE ratio.
Men rape more than women, hit more than women, get into fistfights in bars more than women, start wars more than women...
Riiiiiiiiiight.
It's that logical, calm, cool violence.
Violent personalities attract other violent personalities. ask any therapist. they asked for it.
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nah, couldnt be in that type of relationship either. id feel like her dad. She needs to have an input and carry the relationship as i do. no excuses