"Men should lead" - for real? (character, sign, never)
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Hmm, I hope you are not comparing me to a five year old. I've been nice thus far. You are in no position to elevate yourself while diminishing anyone to the ranks of the child.
I should clarify - managing a sales staff of nearly 90 sales professionals (all of whom were successful and intelligent adults) also contributed to my tolerance level (and sense of wry humor) when dealing with persistent and very opinionated people.
Not to mention the fact that I find those traits easy to understand, considering I embody them as well!
I have NEVER espoused the notion that in an intimate relationship, women (or men) should submit to someone who is less wise than they are, regardless of gender.
I don't believe that's necessary or required. In fact, I would definitely suggest they DON'T do so.
That being said, please note the usage of the term "wise" in my statement. Wisdom and intelligence do not necessarily go hand in hand. Nor does good judgment and IQ for that matter. To me, WISDOM is a combination of both good judgment and good character.
IQ doesn't automatically bestow either on a person. And a person can have a bevy of accomplishments to their name and still be a cruel son of a ****** - or a ****** for that matter.
I am not skirting the issue that the argument is gender based - I am widening the scope of the discussion to clarify WHY I have given my husband the role of "leader" in our family. After all, I gave it to him - God did not. Like I said, it's not an entitlement.
Another poster here is in a same sex marriage. I know several gay and lesbian couples. They have a variety of relationship styles - some have a more dominant/less dominant relationship. In fact, come to think of it, nearly ALL of them have such dynamics in place, and if people who know them are honest, they could surely tell you which partner "wears the pants in the family." Now surely THEIR relationship style is not gender biased!
I've gone into quite a lot of detail here to explain WHY I chose a relationship style in which my husband, who happens to have a penis, is the leader. Our choices are not for everyone, but they work for us, and we are both intelligent, independent-minded, opinionated, responsible, strong willed people with a long history of professional leadership positions and accomplishments to each our names.
I've done so to attempt to balance the stereotypes that often come to people's minds when they hear the words "lead" and "submit."
Last edited by KathrynAragon; 09-28-2012 at 11:24 AM..
I should clarify - managing a sales staff of nearly 90 sales professionals (all of whom were successful and intelligent adults) also contributed to my tolerance level (and sense of wry humor) when dealing with persistent and very opinionated people.
Not to mention the fact that I find those traits easy to understand, considering I embody them as well!
This really doesn't clarify anything. I'm not sure what it has to do with 5-year old's. And trust me, I'm in another professional universe all together compared to what's going in sales/offices- not my bag. I have offered few opinions IRT your posts. I've just had a difficult time making sense of most of what you're saying, so I ask questions.
Exactly, women want men to "take the lead" when it comes to asking them out and paying on the first date and asking them to get married, but a man is not supposed to be the leader of the household. All of a sudden its "we're equal". Get the fu** out of her!
I don't an didn't. It is rather inconsistent to want parts of the antiquated tradition but not all of it. Women like that I think are rightly called selfish gold diggers.
This really doesn't clarify anything. I'm not sure what it has to do with 5-year old's. And trust me, I'm in another professional universe all together compared to what's going in sales/offices- not my bag. I have offered few opinions IRT your posts. I've just had a difficult time making sense of most of what you're saying, so I ask questions.
Interesting. And all my life, I've been commended (and promoted, and published, yada yada yada) on the basis of my strong communication skills. Go figgur!
Hey, I'd love to keep hashing out the same points over and over again, but I've got a knitting needle in my hand that I need to plunge into my eyeball.
Oops, what I mean is that I have better things to do right now. I need to go buy some art supplies to start on the portraits I'm doing for my four children for Christmas. Then I need to go shopping for some hiking boots for my upcoming trip to the Smoky Mountains with the leader of our household, my husband. Though he did give me a directive which I submitted to ("Don't book us into any cheap hotels!") we aren't above roughing it during the day!
Life as a submissive wife - such a chore...I'm so bitter about it all the time. Will someone take these shackles offa me???????
While reading I keep seeing some men saying that if we refuse to submit (which to these guys means be controlled by)husbands we will end up with 100 cats and alone. Why has it become a stereotype that because a woman ends up alone she is miserable and has many cats? There are women who want to be alone, there are people with many cats and are married and everything in between.
Getting back on track, why exactly should I give final decision to my husband just because he is a man? Someone compared the male to a CEO but nope sorry not giving him that power. We will either be co-leaders (as in lead when it fits our strengths)or I will be the leader. However, him being the leader and me being his assistant so to speak would not fly with me. If this is for others, fine but not for me.
Btw, OP I can't remember if I posted this earlier but when I did the religious site many women on this did plan to let their husband be the head of the house. They believed that their husband had final say on EVERYTHING, including whether or not they quit working after marriage or babies (most of the men believed the women needed to quit after kids). The sad thing is many of the women were older, and had good careers yet they believed this. A few were actually bitter that they had careers instead of husbands.
While reading I keep seeing some men saying that if we refuse to submit (which to these guys means be controlled by)husbands we will end up with 100 cats and alone. Why has it become a stereotype that because a woman ends up alone she is miserable and has many cats? There are women who want to be alone, there are people with many cats and are married and everything in between.
Getting back on track, why exactly should I give final decision to my husband just because he is a man? Someone compared the male to a CEO but nope sorry not giving him that power. We will either be co-leaders (as in lead when it fits our strengths)or I will be the leader. However, him being the leader and me being his assistant so to speak would not fly with me. If this is for others, fine but not for me.
Btw, OP I can't remember if I posted this earlier but when I did the religious site many women on this did plan to let their husband be the head of the house. They believed that their husband had final say on EVERYTHING, including whether or not they quit working after marriage or babies (most of the men believed the women needed to quit after kids). The sad thing is many of the women were older, and had good careers yet they believed this. A few were actually bitter that they had careers instead of husbands.
Well, my best friend is aggressively pursuing her plan to become, as she puts it, a "spinster." She's a vet by training, and when not working spends her day with her rescue animals, gardening, reading scientific research and writing or editing articles on related subject matter. Five animals in her house currently, not to mention the horses she rides at her parents' house. She doesn't like people, will never regret not having children and really has no interest in dating. She had two lengthy (and rather passionate) relationships with perfectly acceptable men, and simply decided being part of a couple wasn't for her. Not everyone is happiest doing the kids and family route. Heck, my bff is one of the happiest people I know.
Hey, I'd love to keep hashing out the same points over and over again, but I've got a knitting needle in my hand that I need to plunge into my eyeball.
Oops, what I mean is that I have better things to do right now. I need to go buy some art supplies to start on the portraits I'm doing for my four children for Christmas. Then I need to go shopping for some hiking boots for my upcoming trip to the Smoky Mountains with the leader of our household, my husband. Though he did give me a directive which I submitted to ("Don't book us into any cheap hotels!") we aren't above roughing it during the day!
Life as a submissive wife - such a chore...I'm so bitter about it all the time. Will someone take these shackles offa me???????
Getting back on track, why exactly should I give final decision to my husband just because he is a man? Someone compared the male to a CEO but nope sorry not giving him that power. We will either be co-leaders (as in lead when it fits our strengths)or I will be the leader. However, him being the leader and me being his assistant so to speak would not fly with me. If this is for others, fine but not for me.
I used the CEO phrase... but I did not compare husband's to CEO's. I would appreciate if you read all of the posts vs pulling out "sound bites" and forming an opinion on them. That's a sign of a bad Co-Leader... not understanding the facts and making decisions on bad information.
I did not say a man should be the leader unless it is deserved. And I listed what those characteristics were. None of those characteristics included him being a man.
Back to your concept of Co-Leaders... It is a great ideology, but it is not practical or functional. Someone... singular, has to make the final decision. In everything. It can be discussed, compromised, negotiated or whatever. But someone has to pull the trigger or push the button.
Last edited by Mr. GE; 09-28-2012 at 12:50 PM..
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