Confessions of a former 'Nice Guy' (date, girlfriend, how to, women)
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Now, I quote that, 'nice guy'. While I've never been a self-styled "nice guy" in the sense I tell people I'm a 'nice guy', I sort of convinced myself that I was 'nice' and that the women I liked were attracted to 'jerks' and I wondered why they didn't want me when I dug them so much. I thought that because I liked a girl, and treated them well, they'd eventually feel the same way. I never was primarily interested in sex, in fact that was completely secondary to just having a significant other and doing all those romantic cheesy lovey-dovey things.
You know what though? I realized something. Women want men for the same reasons men want women. They want someone who has a personality they dig AND someone who is physically attractive. They don't have to be an underwear model or a beach bum but they need to be at least average looking and have a good personality to boot, and their looks and demeanor have to appeal to them.
And the thing is, I'm socially awkward and I am 50 pounds overweight. I do think I'm a genuinely nice/caring person, but that's no reason at all to expect someone of the opposite (or same) sex to like you romantically. There has to be that physical connection, I know it sounds cruel but being nice just isn't enough and we should be honest to ourselves and admit this. I couldn't be with a woman who I wasn't physically attracted to at least a little bit. I'd date an overweight woman or a woman with bad teeth, if I found them cute in their own way. But I couldn't be with someone I was completely repulsed by physically or even someone who was alright but just not that cute to me.
It would be not only unfair to me but unfair to them, because they deserve someone who is sexually attracted to them. Why should I expect it of a woman? I shouldn't, because that's hypocritical.
That doesn't mean that there isn't a woman on the planet who wouldn't find me attractive, because I'm not horribly ugly or extremely obese and some people really do value personality vastly above looks, but I no longer selfishly expect women I like to return the favor. I feel like that was a horrible mistake I made, and I'm heaven-bent on never making that mistake again. And there actually are women in my life who express interest in me, but I never felt much of it back or cared much because I was so set on being with a certain woman.
Looking back I saw myself as being a gift to a special someone. I wanted a princess, someone to dote upon and someone who would love me unconditionally and I would love them in return just as strongly. And I still do want those things, but I'm never going to expect someone who isn't into me from the onset to fill that role. I'm not going to hook on to a certain woman like a barnacle again. Because not only do I think my habit of doing that stressed them, but it also stressed me. It made me feel desperate, inadequate, miserable, and ugly, and it probably made them feel uncomfortable, upset, and possibly even resentful.
The reality is relationships are two way streets, they are imperfect and while they can be beautiful, you should never expect anyone to be in one with you, because such a thing is something that can never be 'owed' to somebody, no matter how much they listen to their problems, or dote upon them, or whatever.
Is anyone else a former 'nice guy' and realized what a jack*ss they were being and decided they were going to be different? I feel like a great weight is lifted off my shoulders. I no longer feel doomed to fall in love with unattainable, popular, supermodel-hot girls and I feel ready to hope for something more realistic and hopefully, someone that is actually more compatible with me and not someone who I project a false, perfect image of that is unlike their real self. I also feel more happy being single, I don't feel incomplete, now I simply feel like having a girlfriend would be a bonus but I'm still a whole human being solo and I'm still young and there is still time.
Now, I'm not going to be a d*ck. I am going to continue to be a nice person.
But not a nice guy. A nice man. I'll never be an alpha jock, but I'll graduate from an omega wimp to a beta, upstanding man.
I'm still friends with a couple of my former love interests and I still value their friendship, even though I wanted it to be more, being friends is much better than nothing and though I was bitter and hurt for a while that it never came to anything more, I still value my friendship with them and I will continue to be there for them, hopefully for the rest of my life.
well i have changed to the point where I am reasonably confident that I won't be perceived as a "nice guy". trouble is that deep down i know I still am and have a helluva lot of difficulty accepting that and conveying a "lie" to someone that I am really someone that I am not. this is where therapy might be able to help(or maybe not)
believe me, the "aloof" and "uncaring" approach works but again it's not really what I feel deep down
maybe Toastmasters can help me with my confidence maybe that's all i need...
well i have changed to the point where I am reasonably confident that I won't be perceived as a "nice guy". trouble is that deep down i know I still am and have a helluva lot of difficulty accepting that and conveying a "lie" to someone that I am really someone that I am not. this is where therapy might be able to help(or maybe not)
believe me, the "aloof" and "uncaring" approach works but again it's not really what I feel deep down
maybe Toastmasters can help me with my confidence maybe that's all i need...
You don't have to be aloof and uncaring! That's what 'nice guys' tell themselves to justify their failure. You can still be nice, you just need to be less clingy, women hate that more than bad breath, well most of them anyways.
im less clingy too but the issue im dealing with is that other than some friends at the job and internet relationships i have virtually no friends and am an avoidant loner. I am an extremely functional independent man(been on my own for a long time) and I know there are ladies out there who like me but i just continue my avoidant
"mystique". I could blame it on my long history of shyness and recent cancer diagnosis (Im currently cancer free after surgery but im facing a lot of expenses the next 2 years for scans so i do have a lot on my mind) but i think it's the lack of friends that im most ashamed of. it's like sooner or later im gonna blow my cover and the truth will be found out that i am lonely(an image i carefully and calculatedly try to avoid)
today Thanksgiving i am alone cause i lost both parents and my brother is too far for me to travel to but my mood is just GREAT or someone alone on the holiday. in fact my mood has been super the past few weeks. sometimes i wonder if i am developing manic depression (I can feel lousy to the extent that I am feeling great too)
all i can say is that I am a total enigma and someone who falls the the cracks socially in a major way
I don't know. I have always been too outspoken to be a nice guy. I also don't have the obtuseness to be a chest-beating alpha. I tend to view either extreme persona as a "WTF?" I can't relate to them. I've always been more of an indifferent and independent guy. And certain people can work with that ... and certain people can't, because they are too "packaged" and don't roll that way.
There's a difference between being nice for the sake of being nice and being nice because you want to please the girl to keep her around (read: being unconfident and needy).
Most guys that get hit with the "nice guy" slap fall into the latter category.
Despite how I come off in this forum, I'm actually really nice in person. I don't know of anybody that dislikes me. Most people refer to me as a nice guy. HOWEVER, I'm not a doormat. I know I'm the sh*t and a girl would be lucky to have me. I'm sure that attitude comes across in my interactions with women.
Nice post, OP but I dont think that just because you are no longer a nice guy, it means you have to lower your standards at the same time. If anything, your standards should be higher than they used to be. Women, avoid "nice guys" like a plague, because they see the manipulative nature of their niceness. Being nice to get into girls pants is a losing proposition and completely counterproductive to what these guys are trying to achieve. Youre on the right path though, but you also have a long way to go. To have a goal of becoming an upstanding beta male (whatever that means), is not something to be exactly proud of. I do applaud the progress however and congratulate you on how far youve come. Continue workng on your confidence level, its by far the most important trait in attracting women. Work out and get rid of your extra weight. Dont be your self, be your best self. Have a strong moral value system and defend it at all costs and live your life so it is congruent with your beliefs. Have a plan, know where youre going, what you want and how to get it. This yourself as the ultimate prize and think of any woman would be lucky to date you. I dont mean in an arrogant way but in a quiet confidence way. Learn the arts of flirting, charm and wit. NEVER settle for anything but those most attractive of women. Approach the most attractive female in any environment you find yourself. Be bold, shamless and fearless. You do all that and women will love you for it.
"I*no longer feel doomed to fall in love with unattainable, popular, supermodel-hot girls and I feel ready to hope for something more realistic and hopefully, someone that is actually more compatible with me and not someone who I project a false, perfect image of that is unlike their real self."
Here is the meat. He was trying to date outside of his league, wanting to date a hot girl despite being a fat average joe. He blamed rejection on him being too "nice" but the reality is, he was over-reaching. As it is.for moet complainers, the Nice Guy fallacy is a cover up for thinking you deserve better than what is realistic.
There's an episode of the Simpsons were Homer teaches Lisa to be popular by giving out "complisults" - a combination of compliments and insults. He demonstrates by saying:
A. Lenny, I love your clothes!
B. Thanks, Homer.
A. Yeah, I really like it..it looks great, like something a clown would wear!
B. Oh, please be my friend, please like me!!!
It demonstrates a fact of life that people usually seek approval from those who treat them a bit poorly. They even did research on ducks (yes, ducks) and found the ducklings who were mistreated by their owners were the most loyal. Bizzare, but true
OP, why would you "hook on like a barnacle" to a woman who isn't into you from the outset? That's not normal. I'm glad you figured this out, but I can't help wonder about the psychology of someone who would do that. Of course the issue has nothing to do with being a nice guy. It has everything to do with being driven to go after people who have no interest in you.
Last edited by Ruth4Truth; 11-22-2012 at 05:27 PM..
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