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Well, that's the point of U.S. dating. People think that others should like them no matter what they do or what their history is. Nothing matters, they think lowly of anyone and if anyone doesn't think they should like them, you have a problem.
I.e. it's well known that many young college girls are strippers, prostitutes, etc. Lots of guys are violent felons. Lots of people are drug addicts and so on. Just imagine dating or even marrying such person. And someone does that, after all. Past doesn't matter? Oh yeah, especially when you keep quiet about it, because you know it does. And so does raising someone else's child that you don't know of, or fathering a child on the side. And so does the cheating in general, but "it's not really cheating if you're not caught". You'll find the excuses on your way even if you're caught.
And then people wonder why there is so huge distrust in the dating scene of women towards men and vice versa, and why any sane guy generally avoids commitment (since laws and biology stacks against them in such environment) and why lies are central part of dating scene and family life.
I don't consider anecdotal evidence of any kind "information". I mean, if we located a sub-forum on some Christian website in which dozens of Christians were saying, "Yeah poly people always end up ruining their lives. I knew a friend...", would you consider that information? That is why I kind of took issue with you telling me to go looking for such a website so I could "learn the facts".
So people talking about their own lived experience is the same, in your mind, as, 'I knew a friend..'?
As for your belief that anecdotal evidence is not 'any kind "information"', we'll get to that in a second.
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Rest assured, I am not making any assumptions about what the rates of success (staying together, being free from STDs, etc.) are among polygamous/polyamorous/"open" relationship people as compared to monogamous couples. For all I know, they stay together and STD-free longer than monogamous people on average. But if they did, it wouldn't be simply because they're polyamorous; it'd be due to some other factor. Conversely, we know that adding sexual partners as a factor in and of itself can only create higher risks of STDs and conflicts such as those spawning from jealousy/feeling left out and more. Additional precautions (using "protection" more often during sex and making extra sure to keep feelings of jealousy/feeling "left out" at bay) are needed in the polygamous/polyamorous/"open" relationships to put it on equal ground as the monogamous relationship in terms of risk.
So, your predjudices and biases and assumptions, although contrary to available data, ARE "information"?
Jealousy usually can't simply be "worked through." If someone feels it, they feel it. They can choose how they act on that feeling (for example, refrain from abusive behavior because of it), but they can't choose to not have the feeling.
It's liberating to discover, by your own experience, that this is untrue.
The problem is if they did that, almost every other woman would say "no thanks" just like you. The cost/ benefit ratio to saying you don't want to be completely monogamous is very poor.
Surprisingly, there are slightly more women interested in poly than men.
Jealousy usually can't simply be "worked through." If someone feels it, they feel it. They can choose how they act on that feeling (for example, refrain from abusive behavior because of it), but they can't choose to not have the feeling.
Of course you can. That is precisely part of the growth, taking responsibility for your own feelings.
I'm not sure what you mean here. The only times I haven't used protection in (monogamous) relationships was when we were trying to conceive.
I meant "protection" as in "protection from STDs". Obviously, birth control is pretty standard for both. But in any relationship where it's understood one of the partners is free to have sex with other people, I would think they'd use more than BC to prevent contracting a sexually transmitted disease. But maybe not.
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Originally Posted by monemi
If they're having issues with jealousy and feeling left out, it doesn't sound polyamorous at all. That sounds like one out of the group would prefer a monogamous relationship to me.
One person feeling that the other two people are closer, more compassionate, or more satisfied with each other than either of the two are with said person (whether they are or not) wouldn't mean that person wants to be with just one of them at all. This sort of jealousy or feeling left out is fairly common even among friends; why wouldn't it occur among sexual partners?
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Originally Posted by NilaJones
So people talking about their own lived experience is the same, in your mind, as, 'I knew a friend..'?
Absolutely. Both involve entirely unknown people with entirely unknown credibility. Either party could be lying and either party could be telling the truth. Further, would my example help you understand the point better if I had've said "Christians on a website that are self-proclaimed former 'poly people'"? The point is simply that for every story that suggests something is paradise, we can find another that suggests it's pure misery.
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Originally Posted by NilaJones
As for your belief that anecdotal evidence is not 'any kind "information"', we'll get to that in a second.
Nothing to "get" to, Nila. Anecdotal evidence cannot possibly teach you/me/anyone anything. You have to take what the person is saying as truth first, which means you are assuming from the very beginning and can't learn jack
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Originally Posted by NilaJones
So, your predjudices and biases and assumptions, although contrary to available data, ARE "information"?
I have no idea what "prejudices, biases, and assumptions" you are talking about. But I would like to know what available data is contrary to something I've said... unless you also believe forums on the internet in which people tell their personal stories constitute "data"?
Of course you can. That is precisely part of the growth, taking responsibility for your own feelings.
Oh, I don't agree with that. Taking responsibility doesn't mean not feeling something. It means acknowledging that you have a choice in what you do with the feelings.
Some people actually have never felt jealousy. But most poly people have. Usually the way they deal with it is to look at what underlies it.
You can ask yourself, 'If the word 'jealous' did not exist, how would I describe what I am feeling?' You'll discover that peole use the word to mean all sorts of very different feelings! Some people mean 'scared', some mean 'angry', etc. Then you can go deeper than that. What are you scared OF?
This is, of course, a useful skill to apply to many emotions, and not just in a poly context.
Once you figure out what is really going on, then you can address it. For example (quoting Vic):
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One person feeling that the other two people are closer, more compassionate, or more satisfied with each other than either of the two are with said person (whether they are or not)..
Vic's a little confused, because poly normally means Ann dates Bob and Carl, but does not mean that Carl dates Bob. But the fear that 'you will like him/her better' is a common one.
So, you look at what underlies that. If Bob has this fear, does he feel unlovable? Is it an esteem issue? In that case, he can work on his self esteem. Or does he not trust Ann's word? Does she think she would lie to him? Why does he think that? Does he simply need to be reassured? Does he need time in which to observe her making promises and keeping them? And so on.
It's incredibly empowering, to have methods for dealing with emotions other than just trying not to feel them, or trying to avoid situations that trigger them.
But in any relationship where it's understood one of the partners is free to have sex with other people,
Poly means BOTH people are free to date others.
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I would think they'd use more than BC to prevent contracting a sexually transmitted disease.
If you can gird your loins to enter a poly forum, you will find that people there tend to be EXTREMELY well informed about STI rates and transmission prevention, far more so than monogamous people. And no, you can't fake that.
It shocks me the stuff mono people don't know. We had guy here the other day saying that if you use a condom there is no need for a pre-sex conversation about STIs and testing! Someone who tried to get with a poly person and hadn't been tested in the last few months, or who thought condoms prevented all STIs, would be laughed out of town.
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