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and how do you 'be someone you're not' ? is that like halloween?
or do you mean that a person cannot identify their flaws and change them ?
as what? a farm animal?
nobody is misrepresenting themselves
you say that as if there is some representation of one's self that is "authentic" and other sets which are "fake." you are what you do, say, and think.
If nobody is mis-representing themselves, then why need PUA to teach them how to act?
I do realize now we are splitting hairs on self-improvement versus being disingenuous. But it IS an important distinction.
One is to try and get what you want, even if it's for the moment, the other is to genuinely try to become a better person.
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Expecting successful interpersonal interactions of any kind when values and priorities are not in alignment isn't very realistic, either.
most relationships involve compromise
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If you know going in that you don't want the same things, why expend the effort? Why not just focus on potential partners who are looking for the same thing as you?
who said otherwise?
where did you come up with the idea that PUA is about finding partners who "aren't looking for the same thing as you." ?
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Honesty trumps intrigue, every time. I get that proponents of this sham "movement" are of the opinion that if they were to be honest about what they want, they wouldn't get what they want, but, seriously...you can find women who are JUST interested in getting laid, too. They may or may not fit your ultimate bill, but, hey, life is about compromise, and if getting off is your only objective, it stands to reason that beggars can't be choosers, and all that should really matter is that the woman is willing to get laid, no strings, just like you. And, trust me, those women exist.
Doesn't it make more sense to just lay the cards out there so you can be with compatible people looking for the same thing than to devote so much time and energy and complete BS to trying to manipulate and deceive people who wouldn't otherwise be interested into bending to your will? Newsflash...dating (and getting laid) is not this hard. If you are having to try THIS HARD, and employ this manipulative of tactics, even outright lying, you're doing something (let's be honest, probably a lot of things) wrong.
this just seems like of a collection of words thats unrelated to what i've been talking about.
where did you come up with the idea that PUA is about finding partners who "aren't looking for the same thing as you." ?
this just seems like of a collection of words thats unrelated to what i've been talking about.
Because you said the parties have different goals, and that's where the problem arises.
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Because you said the parties have different goals, and that's where the problem arises.
right, and in this context, when we were discussing goals, i was talking about the fundamental differences between genders.
therefore, if you're suggesting "finding a partner who is looking for the same thing you are," then in one context that would mean two heterosexual men pairing up together, or in another context it would refer to -- say -- two people who both wanted the same level of committment. it's important to specify which.
I wouldn't limit that to women. I'd say that most PEOPLE don't always know what they want in a mate until they meet the right person.
Well I am agreeing with your sentiment. BUT I am specifically not talking about what one wants in a mate but chemistry attraction.
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It's because people aren't 2 dimensional - so attributes that might look good on paper don't necessarily equal a compatible partner. And likewise, the whole package is more than the sum of its parts.
But I'm off topic...
Yes. For sure. BUT there are things that are really less likely to fire attraction, and I believe that cultural changes have made them more likely to occur in men. I know a guy who is a classic Nice Guy. He is smoking hot. But you get this .... sticky sweet feeling around him. And the women he winds up with are bat **** crazy and walk all over him. He is needy and desperate and very 2014.
I know women don't like this fact. But the truth is most of us (never say all ) have thrown out fitness tests in our lives. Even subconsciously. Are you man enough for me? And one sure fire way to answer NO to that question is to be a pushover. If you cannot stand up to ME in a relationship when I am young, stupid and pitch a ridiculous emotional hissy fit, then how can I expect you to stand up FOR me. I am not putting it very well.
I am not talking about being a jerk. My husband is a very caring, thoughtful, loving man. But he is so in a very manly way (his choice of cocktails not withstanding). Likewise the BF. I wish I could explain this better.
While I absolutely MUST have equality of all matters of my personal and professional life, with roles and responsibilities determined by our capacity, not our plumbing, I do think that sexual attraction is not a societal construct but a biological one.
ANyway I have never been very good at articulating this stuff.
i don't advocate being a bad person for the sake of getting what you want, which is what you're implying.
But PUA advocates playing games with women to get what they want.
The splitting hairs is pointless, and is getting circular. If PUA was all about self-improvement for men, they certainly wouldn't have shows with some geek in eyeliner sending guys after drunk chicks at the bar. Or advocate words like "mangina" and "white knight" or a plethora of other things I've seen from their sites, books and TV shows.
Or maybe they are just as misunderstood as the poor men who sign up for the talks.
I do believe that a guy with common sense CAN take out the good without the bad.
They are making bank, on the backs of guys who don't know any better.
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Well I am agreeing with your sentiment. BUT I am specifically not talking about what one wants in a mate but chemistry attraction.
Yes. For sure. BUT there are things that are really less likely to fire attraction, and I believe that cultural changes have made them more likely to occur in men. I know a guy who is a classic Nice Guy. He is smoking hot. But you get this .... sticky sweet feeling around him. And the women he winds up with are bat **** crazy and walk all over him. He is needy and desperate and very 2014.
I know women don't like this fact. But the truth is most of us (never say all ) have thrown out fitness tests in our lives. Even subconsciously. Are you man enough for me? And one sure fire way to answer NO to that question is to be a pushover. If you cannot stand up to ME in a relationship when I am young, stupid and pitch a ridiculous emotional hissy fit, then how can I expect you to stand up FOR me. I am not putting it very well.
I am not talking about being a jerk. My husband is a very caring, thoughtful, loving man. But he is so in a very manly way (his choice of cocktails not withstanding). Likewise the BF. I wish I could explain this better.
While I absolutely MUST have equality of all matters of my personal and professional life, with roles and responsibilities determined by our capacity, not our plumbing, I do think that sexual attraction is not a societal construct but a biological one.
ANyway I have never been very good at articulating this stuff.
Men test women, too. They like to see how far they can get either sexually or with being disrespectful or obnoxious before a woman puts them in their place. If a woman lets them go too far, she's either a zlut or a pushover. Women often see having to smack them down as being bitchy, but it's really just setting boundaries. This may sound sexist, but it's a lot like dealing with a two-year-old.
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) have thrown out fitness tests in our lives. Even subconsciously. Are you man enough for me? And one sure fire way to answer NO to that question is to be a pushover. If you cannot stand up to ME in a relationship when I am young, stupid and pitch a ridiculous emotional hissy fit, then how can I expect you to stand up FOR me. I am not putting it very well.
