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PUAs were most likely bullied in school, or use it as adults in their 20s/30s to compensate for it. Some of them even say this is the case, or maybe use it as a promotional tool lol..
But then I'd like to see some actual proven studies that PUA works. I'm not a psychologist, but then there are studies, the PUA gurus should be the first to seek to advance them.
Most who defend PUA sound just like #2, and I wonder why, if it's so successful & builds so much confidence, they seem so bitter & angry & cynical still.
YES. Every single post I have ever read extolling the virtues of this system comes off as anything BUT confident, to tell the truth. Absolutely the opposite, in fact.
Quote:
It also turns gender dynamics into a war of sorts - it's winning & strategy & being a step ahead. It sounds tiring and not very fulfilling in the long-run.
Yep. Who ever gained anything fulfilling by turning everything into manipuation and battle tactics? Dumb stuff.
Guys who are truly successful with women in the long term (i.e. not just scoring short-term sex) don't have to spend inordinate amounts of time and energy studying up on some pop psychology trend of the moment that details how it's most important to manipulate and con women into being with them.
YES. Every single post I have ever read extolling the virtues of this system comes off as anything BUT confident, to tell the truth. Absolutely the opposite, in fact.
Yep. Who ever gained anything fulfilling by turning everything into manipuation and battle tactics? Dumb stuff.
Guys who are truly successful with women in the long term (i.e. not just scoring short-term sex) don't have to spend inordinate amounts of time and energy studying up on some pop psychology trend of the moment that details how it's most important to manipulate and con women into being with them.
This is a good point. The average guy who has decent people skills and bothers taking reasonable care of himself simply does not have a problem finding someone. It's the ones who have the emotional equivalent of a frontal lobotomy who struggle and then subsequently resort to this stuff. It's kind of pathetic and smacks of desperation.
If you cannot have an open, honest discussion (not argument) with the person you are with or trying to be with it is pointless to stay with them or continue to try and be with them.
hahahahaha no
98% of the time...
guy: I really like you
girl: uhh i like you too but not in that way
guy: ohh
Actively showing a girl that you like her may get you into a relationship with her but an honest discussion usually won't.
notice how I said relationship...
sometimes guys just move too slow and the flame dies... it has nothing to do with whether the guy was "her type" or not. I've personally been rejected by women because I was afraid to make moves too soon. I don't take most PUA ideas seriously but this is one I've been able to learn from.
Move fast, don't have a discussion about how much you like her...show her.
guy: I really like you
girl: uhh i like you too but not in that way
guy: ohh
Actively showing a girl that you like her may get you into a relationship with her but an honest discussion usually won't.
notice how I said relationship...
sometimes guys just move too slow and the flame dies... it has nothing to do with whether the guy was "her type" or not. I've personally been rejected by women because I was afraid to make moves too soon. I don't take most PUA ideas seriously but this is one I've been able to learn from.
Move fast, don't have a discussion about how much you like her...show her.
The only thing to learn from PUA is that you have to LOOK at what attracts women, and then do that, instead of doing what women SAY they like.
For lots of people it's just natural. They just do it. But there are many sociall inepts who don't, and then watch an Ashton Kutcher starred romantic comedy and think that chasing a woman around and fixing everything for her will make her love them. Then they grow resented.
They think they are "nice guys" but they aren't, they are just setting up a covert contract (I am NICE, you give me SEX). Obviously women hate that. If they had looked at the PUA advice before the Ashton Kutcher romantic comedy, they would be much better off. They would actually have a chance with the woman instead of just having to pay for coffee every now and then and listen to her talk about the guys she actually dates.
I didn't even know what PUA was until this thread. I had to Google it.
I don't know enough about it to conclude anything other than it's probably like a lot of other "movements". It can be helpful or be used to prey on women. I can say I have met and fallen in love with men who have used these practices and it never turned out well. And, back then, I was a weakling. Today, I'd chew them up and spit them out.
If a man has good intentions, it could be helpful. But it sounds more predatory.
It smacks of laziness, and that is how the self improvement industry makes their money. People are always looking for fast results with the least amount of effort. Working on the cause of confidence and self esteem issues takes work and it takes time, so it's not an attractive option. But these are the two things that seal the deal for a quality woman, and none of these PUA techniques will change what is really wrong at the core. So, it will eventually rear its ugly head and the panty peeling will come to a halt. You'll have to start over again with someone new, and that is how predators operate.
I'll admit, I am not expert. But from what I've read of it and from sites I've read that promote it, the best PUA stuff is basically common sense that most people know anyway (there are some out there things that make me scratch my head, but some of it is good material). All of the "good stuff" anyone can get for free just by searching online or picking up a book on relationships at the local library. But some people like the support and help that comes with a group or paid program--it can be helpful to some to get guidance and be pointed in the right direction.
I think PUA stuff is a lot like dieting and commercialized diets and has the whole "buyer beware" aspect of that similar industry. Pretty much everyone knows the way to lose weight is to eat less, eat healthy, and get exercise. But people will still join all kinds of programs and spend hundreds of dollars to find out the "secrets" no one else knows. While some of the programs as good (are are the equivalent of support groups). Some of those programs are out, based on pseudo science, and are just out there to collect the money of the desperate--no matter what the cost. Some of which are harmful and long lasting effects on the person who subscribed to it.
Or as the poster above me said... a self-help fad making someone else rich.
I think it works for the most part, which is why guys do it. And let's face it, there are a lot of expectations and demands being placed on men nowadays that didn't exist in the past. Dating isn't even fun anymore, just a lot of stressful work. Half of the time if someone just relaxes and 'is themselves', it's not going to be good enough... so if you're expected to completely transform yourself before women find you appealing, but you don't know what to do, why wouldn't you turn to PUA?
I think the fact that it's well known at this point is probably making it harder to use, but I'm sure it also has
an influence on dating in general... and it's not like women are going to admit that they fell for it.
I think there's always at least a little game involved at first anyways.
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