When do you expect her to pay? (marry, kiss, calling)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I think I discovered one more thing that needs clarification. This thread was created asking "when do you expect her to pay" with no other stipulations. Some people did say "whoever does the inviting should do the paying", but these same people would also say in the same post that if the guy doesn't pay for the first date then he is not a gentleman. This created an additional assumption that the guy is always the one initiating the first date. Maybe I missed or forgot about the post, but I don't remember a woman stating "If I ask the guy on the first date, I'll pay". Again, I recognize that many women did say if they invite a guy on a date they will pay. However, they also seemed to infer that they would only ask a guy out if they determined that they liked the guy, and they didn't know if they like the guy until after going on a date with the guy. This chain of events means you will never ask a guy out on a first date and therefor never pay for the first date.
So...hopefully women can answer these questions honestly.
How many times have you actually asked a guy out on a first date? (I am hoping for a numeric answer if possible...not just a generic "plenty of times")
If you went on a date which you initiated, did you pay or did the guy still pay?
I don't know. I know that I tracked one guy down on campus and found his email address - sent him an email telling him that I'd love to meet him for coffee if he was interested. We had met briefly at an event that I was singing at and he was speaking at. I was an undergrad and he was getting his masters. We were supposed to meet up for coffee but we went to two different locations of the same coffee shop! This was before cell phones - so I went home and he called me and ended up coming over. He brought some ice cream with him - which I thought was the sweetest gesture! Would I have paid for coffee if we had gone out? I definitely would have offered - but I can't say if I would have put my foot down about it. If it was dinner - I probably would have since I was currently in an open relationship and didn't want anyone to spend too much money on me. Most of the guys that I dated during that time asked me out - but we usually just hung out at someone's apartment or went to a party or something. The few times we went out to eat - I do remember paying for both of us at least once, maybe twice. I only really remember going out to eat a few times. With my high school/ college boyfriend - he pretty much insisted on paying all the time. Even if my parents gave me money for dinner - I'd have to slip it to him under the table! He probably grew out of that! My ex-fiance and I would go back and forth paying for things. We didn't really have a first date. He invited me to his step - sister's wedding - but this was after we already knew we were interested in each other. I remember he paid for my ice cream once before we were dating - and I thought that was so nice!
I've never dated a stranger. I never did online dating. I haven't been completely single since I was 16.
Quote:
We are using "demand" in two different ways. You think I mean demand as in you express it to them. I am using demand as in, if I don't, you won't give me another look. You may pay for yourself, but if you do, then I'm not worth it.
If you have never dated a man who has not been insistent on paying for the first date, how can you honestly say that it won't affect your decision? Reading your responses suggests that it clearly would.
There aren't actual laws but these are unwritten laws that people still grow up with. If it weren't actually an issue, you would see more women in here saying that they don't have a problem paying for the first date. Instead, you see nearly every woman saying a man who doesn't pay for the first date is not worth a second because it shows he is not a gentleman. That mindset just continues to get passed down.
There are the women who say they always offer, but follow that up with resentment if they have to follow through. So now we know even if she offers, we still better not accept because she is not being genuine about her offer, and all of our previous kindness was just thrown out the window.
If I really liked a guy and was having a wonderful time on the date - and the check came and I took out my wallet and asked how much I owed - and he was still smiling and told me - I would probably hand over the money or my card and not think twice about it. If the check came and we were having a wonderful time - and the check came and he got all serious and told me how much I owed before I had a chance to get my wallet out like you were testing me - I'd probably be a bit taken back. Like I said - it's not a big deal to me. But if you act like you are angry at me because I'm a woman - then I'm probably going to lose interest in you.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khohf
I can see what they are trying to get at Saritaschihuahua. I'll see if I can help explain it a little differently.
Some men want women's mindsets to change when women think men who want the first date costs to be split (not necessarily equally...just he pays for himself and she pays for herself) are inconsiderate. The women seem to think these men are inconsiderate because there are other men who don't mind paying the bill at all. But, not all of the men who pay the first date do it out of kindness, they do it because they think it's expected (because of threads like these). So as they continue to do it, whether out of true generosity or because they know that is the only way they will get a second date, it perpetuates a woman's viewpoint that men who don't do it have less character since there are men who will do it.
If more men were actually vocal about the situation, or if their behavior reflected how they really felt about the situation, women wouldn't stop dating men entirely. They would adjust their behavior because they still want to date men. But since so many men are scared to bunk the norm, women continue to put men on a pedestal who pay for the date compared to those who don't want to without considering other aspects of their characters.
Someone who is willing to date me just for the dates and possible gifts she may get. Gold-digger...
It's not always immediately clear that she is one. She tries to ease her way into it because she doesn't want to blow her cover.
A lot of women will always offer to pay. Some women will gladly pay for their share. There are always going to be double standards when it comes to dating because men and women are just not the same. When men find a way to have babies - maybe we can revisit this we are all completely equal and the same thing!
Khohf, I'm on my phone and would mess up cutting down that post to just the part addressed to me, sorry. I would not be interested in attempting to overcome whatever chip a guy had on his shoulder about past women. If he had issues with greedy women in the past and viewed me with suspicion because of it, that's his problem. I try to be a thoughtful, generous person, and I am quick to reciprocate. If a first date is some test to find out if I am just like his horrible ex ... Later. Life's too short.
I know that I tracked one guy down on campus and found his email address - sent him an email telling him that I'd love to meet him for coffee if he was interested. We had met briefly at an event that I was singing at and he was speaking at. I was an undergrad and he was getting his masters. We were supposed to meet up for coffee but we went to two different locations of the same coffee shop! This was before cell phones - so I went home and he called me and ended up coming over. He brought some ice cream with him - which I thought was the sweetest gesture! Would I have paid for coffee if we had gone out? I definitely would have offered - but I can't say if I would have put my foot down about it. If it was dinner - I probably would have since I was currently in an open relationship and didn't want anyone to spend too much money on me. Most of the guys that I dated during that time asked me out - but we usually just hung out at someone's apartment or went to a party or something. The few times we went out to eat - I do remember paying for both of us at least once, maybe twice. I only really remember going out to eat a few times. With my high school/ college boyfriend - he pretty much insisted on paying all the time. Even if my parents gave me money for dinner - I'd have to slip it to him under the table! He probably grew out of that! My ex-fiance and I would go back and forth paying for things. We didn't really have a first date. He invited me to his step - sister's wedding - but this was after we already knew we were interested in each other. I remember he paid for my ice cream once before we were dating - and I thought that was so nice!
I've never dated a stranger. I never did online dating. I haven't been completely single since I was 16.
If I really liked a guy and was having a wonderful time on the date - and the check came and I took out my wallet and asked how much I owed - and he was still smiling and told me - I would probably hand over the money or my card and not think twice about it. If the check came and we were having a wonderful time - and the check came and he got all serious and told me how much I owed before I had a chance to get my wallet out like you were testing me - I'd probably be a bit taken back. Like I said - it's not a big deal to me. But if you act like you are angry at me because I'm a woman - then I'm probably going to lose interest in you.
A lot of women will always offer to pay. Some women will gladly pay for their share. There are always going to be double standards when it comes to dating because men and women are just not the same. When men find a way to have babies - maybe we can revisit this we are all completely equal and the same thing!
You seem to be somewhat of an outlier since you have not been single since you were 16 and have been in open relationships. I think that dynamic is very different and something I've never experienced.
And I don't think it counts as you offering when it was your parents gave you the money specifically for the date. I know you were young at the time, but that's definitely not the same.
I don't know if I even want to get into your underlying rebuttal of "woman have babies so men should have no problem paying". I'm not having a baby with every woman I go on a date with and she is not having a baby with every man she goes on a date with.
Why is no respect given when a guy says "prove to me that you have a romantic interest instead of viewing me as an additional wallet at your disposal"?
Because if you go into a romantic relationship with a purely financial intent ("OMG SHE'S AFTER MY BANK BALANCE!"), you've effectively turned the romance switch to "OFF" before the date has begun.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Khohf
But weren't you also the one that said not only for the guy's benefit, but for your own benefit you prefer to pay for yourself on the first date just to remove that possible influence as a decision maker?
I do. I always do offer to pay when on the first date. However, if that guy is of the type you guys seem to be hinting you are (you know, the, "OMG SHE'S AFTER MY BANK BALANCE!" type), he won't get a chance at a second date. And if you think this sort of attitude doesn't transmit loud and clear and that you're hiding it well, look again. Trust me, we women may not as good at throwing a ball, but we sure are good at reading people.
Last edited by Saritaschihuahua; 06-17-2014 at 10:03 PM..
Khohf, I'm on my phone and would mess up cutting down that post to just the part addressed to me, sorry. I would not be interested in attempting to overcome whatever chip a guy had on his shoulder about past women. If he had issues with greedy women in the past and viewed me with suspicion because of it, that's his problem. I try to be a thoughtful, generous person, and I am quick to reciprocate. If a first date is some test to find out if I am just like his horrible ex ... Later. Life's too short.
Do you have sex on a first date? Or do you resist because there may be men out there who only want you for sex? Just because a past relationship may have dumped you after having sex doesn't mean I will. You should be willing to have sex with me on the first date because it shows your interest in me. If you're not willing to have sex on the first date...later. Life's too short.
It's not a chip as in I'm angry at all women. It's a caution because I know those women exist. Just like people don't (usually) have sex on a first date because the other person may have a disease. I'm not accusing you of having a disease, I'm just being cautious because you might. It's not like the greedy women have a sign on their forehead and we go into it knowing.
I guarantee your viewpoint would be different if the woman was the one who was expected to pay.
Because if you go into a romantic relationship with a purely financial intent ("OMG SHE'S AFTER MY BANK BALANCE!"), you've effectively turned the romance switch to "OFF" before the date has begun.
I do. I always do offer to pay when on the first date. However, if that guy is of the type you guys seem to be hinting you are (you know, the, "OMG SHE'S AFTER MY BANK BALANCE!" type), he won't get a chance at a second date. And if you think this sort of attitude doesn't transmit loud and clear and that you're hidding it well, look again. Trust me, we women may not as good at throwing a ball, but we sure are good at reading people.
Again, I'm not saying that they are after my bank account. I'm not going into the relationship with a purely financial intent. But you are acting like I'm insulting you when I too want to make sure you aren't going into the relationship with a purely financial intent. You want us to take a complete gamble each and every time and hope for the best.
In fact, I want to remove finances from it completely. That's why I want you to pay for yourself in the beginning. Women act like paying for herself is insulting and unromantic. Obviously finances plays a huge role in a lot of women's decisions but they like to mask it as the guy showing a good quality.
Just like women think a precursor to generosity is a man's willingness to pay for a first date, can't a man have view a woman's requirement of a man to pay for the first date as a precursor to her possibly being a gold digger? "Just because you dated a gold digger doesn't mean I'm one". Yeah well...just because you dated a guy who didn't pay for the first date but also continued to be cheap doesn't mean I'm that way either. You're reasoning is sound while mine is not why?
Probably after the third or fourth date. This is not 1950. A lot of women actually make more than men in these days. If a woman wants you to pay every single time, then I believe she is just a user and sees dating as means for living.
You seem to be somewhat of an outlier since you have not been single since you were 16 and have been in open relationships. I think that dynamic is very different and something I've never experienced.
And I don't think it counts as you offering when it was your parents gave you the money specifically for the date. I know you were young at the time, but that's definitely not the same.
I don't know if I even want to get into your underlying rebuttal of "woman have babies so men should have no problem paying". I'm not having a baby with every woman I go on a date with and she is not having a baby with every man she goes on a date with.
I still dated my husband and my ex fiancé. We weren't in open relationships.
I didn't use the example of my parents giving me money as me paying for dates - I used that as an example of how he wouldn't let it appear that I had paid for the dates. His parents were giving him money for the dates, too - so it's not like HE was paying either. We dated between the ages of 17 and 22. Our parents paid for our dates.
Do you not want to accept my answers because they do not serve your agenda?
My point about the babies is that men and women are simply different. Women are never going to be exactly like men.
Here's my bottom line - if I was dating right now and I was having a wonderful time on a date and he took me up on my offer to pay - it wouldn't make me lose interest in him but it might make me look for signs that he wasn't that interested in me. If he told me how much my share was in a way that made me feel like he had a chip on his shoulder before I had a chance to offer or reach for my purse - I probably would lose interest.
Here's my bottom line - if I was dating right now and I was having a wonderful time on a date and he took me up on my offer to pay - it wouldn't make me lose interest in him but it might make me look for signs that he wasn't that interested in me. If he told me how much my share was in a way that made me feel like he had a chip on his shoulder before I had a chance to offer or reach for my purse - I probably would lose interest.
Okay, so it might not make you lose interest, but it would be harder for you to be interested in him because you would be spending more time trying to determine if he was interested in you. Which is still saying that women believe to show them you are interested in them is to pay for the dates.
Okay, so it might not make you lose interest, but it would be harder for you to be interested in him because you would be spending more time trying to determine if he was interested in you. Which is still saying that women believe to show them you are interested in them is to pay for the dates.
It is one way to show you are interested. There are other ways. Would you think a woman was interested in you if she didn't laugh at anything you said all night? If she didn't touch you at all? If she didn't make eye contact with you? If she didn't share anything with you about herself? If she didn't ask you any questions about yourself?
Like I keep saying - dating is about so much more than who pays - but if you have an attitude about it when the bill comes - it's probably going to send up a warning flag.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
