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I've said this before but wanting equal rights and equal pay doesn't mean that we want to be men or that we want to be treated like men. Everyone should have equal rights and equal pay - but that doesn't mean that people don't want to feel special in a relationship.
I have no desire to take on the same role in a relationship as I do at work. Actually, I probably want the polar opposite.
I don't care what you in particular do. It is not punishment to ask a person to pay for what they ate. Like I stated before, women in general have a sense of entitlement (men do as well, but that's another topic). They expect the man to ask them out, plan the dates and pay for them, because that's how things are done. And it's not just the dating aspect of the relationship. Men, in general, are expected to take the initiative in escalating the relationship in general. You can see many topics on this board and other relationship boards where women ask why a man isn't asking them out, initiating contact, proposing, etc. Women claim to want equality, but it's only when it suits them.
Again, I know men contribute to the problem. I also don't need any advice on dating. I am in this thread to state my opinion on the matter, not to ask for advice.
I don't care what you in particular do. It is not punishment to ask a person to pay for what they ate. Like I stated before, women in general have a sense of entitlement (men do as well, but that's another topic). They expect the man to ask them out, plan the dates and pay for them, because that's how things are done. And it's not just the dating aspect of the relationship. Men, in general, are expected to take the initiative in escalating the relationship in general. You can see many topics on this board and other relationship boards where women ask why a man isn't asking them out, initiating contact, proposing, etc. Women claim to want equality, but it's only when it suits them.
You said earlier that this was ingrained in us so which is it indoctrination or entitlement?
You realize that up until about 30-40 years ago, roughly 98% of our existence, society dictated that men be in charge of all that and any woman that bucked that system was punished. This way still exists in some societies.
And of course women want equality, equality: indicating that quantities or expressions on either side of an equal sign are equal in value equivalency, correspondence, sameness; justice, fairness, impartiality.
Who wouldn't.
When it comes to finding a life partner most people still envision themselves and a potential partner in their specific gender role to some extent. The man pursuing and paying for the date is symbolic of him being a strong confident provider. The woman being all dolled up, having a demur manner and being attentive is symbolic of being a supportive and nurturing partner.
If a guy asked me out to dinner and proclaimed I had to pay my own check and split gas because I want equal civil rights and can earn my own money, I see a man who wont put anyone else before himself (wife, children), who wont ever have my back, someone I could never show my vulnerability to because I would always have to prove myself. This would be ok if I were just out to have some fun an wasn't interested in any relationship.
If this were the case Id show up in sweatpants and a t-shirt and flip flops with my hair unkempt, proclaim loudly how I was paying for my own meal because I had equal rights and made my own money, I'd dominate the conversation, be distracted easily then leave him sitting there with his Johnson in his hand.
Having said all that, I don't mind paying for dates but it needs to be presented in such a way. More along the lines of would you like to get together later. That leaves it open for me to respond with a particular venue and accordingly pick up the tab. But if someone invites me to dinner, I would expect they were picking up the tab. If they are short on funds then it should be coffee, ice cream or the like.
I can see your point. I think one practice I'll follow is just make the first 4 dates non-dinner. Like maybe coffee or having ice cream under the DC monument. If me and a girl are into each other it shouldn't matter anyway what we do.
You don't have to answer this if you don't feel like it - are you financially strapped, or do you have a somewhat negative view of women?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TehSamurai
I don't care what you in particular do. It is not punishment to ask a person to pay for what they ate. Like I stated before, women in general have a sense of entitlement (men do as well, but that's another topic). They expect the man to ask them out, plan the dates and pay for them, because that's how things are done. And it's not just the dating aspect of the relationship. Men, in general, are expected to take the initiative in escalating the relationship in general. You can see many topics on this board and other relationship boards where women ask why a man isn't asking them out, initiating contact, proposing, etc. Women claim to want equality, but it's only when it suits them.
Again, I know men contribute to the problem. I also don't need any advice on dating. I am in this thread to state my opinion on the matter, not to ask for advice.
Well, I disagree. If you ask someone to go on a date with you but you have no intention of paying for them because they have a good career - I think that's a form of trying to punish them. Your whole "women want quality but only when it suits them" just reinforces this. I've said this before but wanting equal rights and equal pay doesn't mean that we want to be men or that we want to be treated like men. Everyone should have equal rights and equal pay - but that doesn't mean that people don't want to feel special in a relationship.
You should want to be treated like a person. Things are not equal if one expects to receive free things because they want to feel "special." Like I previously stated, women are entitled. They want the man to pay so that they know that the relationship is serious, without contributing anything.
You don't have to answer this if you don't feel like it - are you financially strapped, or do you have a somewhat negative view of women?
I am merely stating my opinions. I don't hate women, but I am going to acknowledge double standards when I see them. It's kind of funny that you will go that route just because I said that women should pay their fair share.
Again, it's easy to downplay expenses when you aren't doing the paying. "It's only [insert amount here]!" is something that kids say when they want their parents to buy them candy or a toy.
Okay, I get it that you believe each should pay his own way.
How do you feel about other men wanting to pay for their dates? Do you feel it's wrong of men to do so because it "sets" what you believe is a bad standard for what you see as ideal for you? Or do you feel each person should do exactly what they wish?
Also, have you had an experience in which you dated someone who asked you to pay her way?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TehSamurai
I am merely stating my opinions. I don't hate women, but I am going to acknowledge double standards when I see them. It's kind of funny that you will go that route just because I said that women should pay their fair share.
Again, it's easy to downplay expenses when you aren't doing the paying. "It's only [insert amount here]!" is something that kids say when they want their parents to buy them candy or a toy.
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